Swine Flu: Potential Threat to Human Species?

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The discussion centers on concerns regarding a new strain of swine flu emerging in Mexico and the U.S., with fears about its potential to cause widespread fatalities. Experts note that while the virus has shown resistance to some antiviral drugs, it primarily affects young, healthy adults, which is atypical for flu viruses that usually target the very young and elderly. The CDC does not recommend extreme measures, indicating that the situation is being monitored and cases reported have been mild. Historical patterns suggest that flu pandemics occur roughly every 20 years, raising questions about the current strain's severity compared to past outbreaks. Overall, while there is concern about the virus's spread, current evidence suggests it may not escalate to the catastrophic levels feared.
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I live in Arizona, and I've been hearing all the news about the new swine flu outbreaks in Mexico and in California/Texas. If the worst case scenario with this virus were to occur, how many people would approximately die from this? Hundreds of thousands? Millions? Hundreds of Millions? Billions perhaps? What is the kill rate of this virus? Could it threaten the safety of the entire human species? Will I be safe if I stay in my house and stockpile extremely large quantities of food and water?
 
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The CDC doesn't seem to indicate taking extreme measures.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/04/24/swine.flu/

The new strain of swine flu has resisted some antiviral drugs.
Health Library

* MayoClinic.com: Influenza (flu)

The CDC is working with health officials in California and Texas and expects to find more cases, Schuchat said.

A pandemic is defined as: a new virus to which everybody is susceptible; the ability to readily spread from person to person; and the capability of causing significant disease in humans, said Dr. Jay Steinberg, an infectious disease specialist at Emory University Hospital Midtown in Atlanta. The new strain of swine flu meets only one of the criteria: novelty.

History indicates that flu pandemics tend to occur once every 20 years or so, so we're due for one, Steinberg said.
 


WhoWee said:
The CDC doesn't seem to indicate taking extreme measures.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/04/24/swine.flu/

The new strain of swine flu has resisted some antiviral drugs.
Health Library

* MayoClinic.com: Influenza (flu)

The CDC is working with health officials in California and Texas and expects to find more cases, Schuchat said.

A pandemic is defined as: a new virus to which everybody is susceptible; the ability to readily spread from person to person; and the capability of causing significant disease in humans, said Dr. Jay Steinberg, an infectious disease specialist at Emory University Hospital Midtown in Atlanta. The new strain of swine flu meets only one of the criteria: novelty.

History indicates that flu pandemics tend to occur once every 20 years or so, so we're due for one, Steinberg said.

Approximately how many people die from these flu pandemics? Is this swine flu actually more dangerous/deadly than the Avian flu? Are the two somehow related?
 


Nothing I'm reading so far indicates that this will be any worse than other "severe" strains of flu. Likely the same general concepts apply, that the most vulnerable will be the elderly, the very young (infants and toddlers) and the immuno-compromised. It says everyone is susceptible, but doesn't mean everyone will be exposed, catch it, or be worse off than if they managed to catch any other strain of flu that would just leave them feeling really horrible for a few days.

The only particularly notable thing about this strain, and what it sounds like caught the CDC's attention, is that it's spreading outside the usual flu season. The flu season is usually over by now, but it seems this strain is still spreading.

Edit: Strike that...it seems it is affecting otherwise healthy adults
Most of Mexico’s dead were young, healthy adults, and none were over 60 or under 3 years old, the World Health Organization said. That alarms health officials because seasonal flus cause most of their deaths among infants and bedridden elderly people, but pandemic flus — like the 1918 Spanish flu, and the 1957 and 1968 pandemics — often strike young, healthy people the hardest.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/26/world/americas/26mexico.html?ref=world

Still, it seems to remain only a small number of cases and a small number of deaths, so it may be like all the panic about SARS, which was quickly contained and controlled and didn't turn into the huge pandemic everyone feared. Modern knowledge about disease transmission may help prevent such large scale pandemics when a new virus strain is detected sufficiently early to focus on prevention rather than treatment.
 
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We got word here around April 5, from Canada, the blood samples sent there tested positive for Swine Influenza A/H1N1. The finding of elements, three animal strains and one human strain suggests that it developed by genetic re-assortment rather than a direct mutation.
Its migrant worker season, I would advise us all to maintain the same standards{wash hands often, ect.} as we do during the hight of flu season. I'm not sure its in the news yet, but cases have now seen in New York, Kansas, and Missouri. So far all USA cases have been mild, and are responding well to normal flu medications.
 
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How is this new virus transmitted?
 


From respiratory droplets, which are expelled from the respiratory tract during coughing or sneezing. So standing with in 2 feet of a person with the virus, who is coughing/sneezing without covering the mouth/nose, is a good way to get it.They{the droplets} don't remain suspended in the air, so most people contact them from a surface with their hands, followed by touching the nose or mouth.
 
Novel strain of influenza causing epidemic

Many posts by public health experts at Effect Measure (part of the Scienceblogs network organized by Seed magazine):

http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasure/swine_flu/ [/size]

Dedicated CDC page:

http://www.cdc.gov/swineflu/[/size]

Recent news:

Mexico Takes Powers to Isolate Cases of Swine Flu
New York Times said:
“My government will not delay one minute to take all the necessary measures to deal with this epidemic,” Mr. Calderón said in Oaxaca State during the opening of a new hospital, which he said will set aside an area for anyone who might be affected by the new swine flu strain that has already killed as many as 68 people in Mexico and sickened more than 1,000 others. Most of the cases were reported in the center of the country, but there were other cases in pockets to the north and south.

Students Fall Ill in New York, and Swine Flu Is Likely Cause
Tests show that eight students at a Queens high school are likely to have contracted the human swine flu virus that has struck Mexico and a small number of other people in the United States, health officials in New York City said yesterday.


I invite the moderators to edit this post at will, to put anything they see as relevant here in this first post of the thread.
 
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You know, someone once told me that the developed world will never have a pandemic, not until pigs will fly. Well, swine flu.
 
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  • #10


The first case was seen in Mexico on April 13. The outbreak coincided with the President Barack Obama’s trip to Mexico City on April 16. Obama was received at Mexico’s anthropology museum in Mexico City by Felipe Solis, a distinguished archeologist who died the following day from symptoms similar to flu, Reforma newspaper reported. The newspaper didn’t confirm if Solis had swine flu or not.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aEsNownABJ6Q&refer=home

:eek:
 
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  • #12


Who remembers the 1975 outbreak? Back when that hit and everyone was talking about a possible pandemic, I read about the 1918 outbreak.

Just a bit of perspective.
 
  • #13


The_Absolute said:
I live in Arizona, and I've been hearing all the news about the new swine flu outbreaks in Mexico and in California/Texas. If the worst case scenario with this virus were to occur, how many people would approximately die from this? Hundreds of thousands? Millions? Hundreds of Millions? Billions perhaps? What is the kill rate of this virus? Could it threaten the safety of the entire human species? Will I be safe if I stay in my house and stockpile extremely large quantities of food and water?

Are you an infant, over the age or 65? Do you have chronic pulmonary disorder?

Didn't think so.
 
  • #14


Does mexico have universal flu vaccine? Does it help with this strain?
 
  • #15


Its apparently gotten here to California. Last I heard doctors weren't too terribly worried buy advised caution and a visit to the doctor if you have flu symptoms.
 
  • #16


I hope this doesn't turn out to be THE bug we've all been told is due to hit the human race.
 
  • #17


http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/04/26/world/AP-Swine-Flu-World.html?_r=1
WELLINGTON, New Zealand (AP) -- Twenty-five students and teachers in New Zealand, some with flu-like symptoms, were quarantined and tested for swine flu after returning from a trip to Mexico, officials said Sunday, as Asia stepped up surveillance for the deadly virus.

At least 81 people have died from severe pneumonia caused by a flu-like illness in Mexico, according to the World Health Organization, which declared the virus a public health emergency of ''pandemic potential.''
 
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  • #18


NeoDevin said:
Does mexico have universal flu vaccine? Does it help with this strain?

According to the CDC, there is no vaccine effective against this strain. However, antivirals may be effective:

Is there a vaccine for swine flu?
Vaccines are available to be given to pigs to prevent swine influenza. There is no vaccine to protect humans from swine flu. The seasonal influenza vaccine will likely help provide partial protection against swine H3N2, but not swine H1N1 viruses.
http://www.cdc.gov/swineflu/key_facts.htm

Are there medicines to treat swine flu?
Yes. CDC recommends the use of oseltamivir or zanamivir for the treatment and/or prevention of infection with these swine influenza viruses. Antiviral drugs are prescription medicines (pills, liquid or an inhaler) that fight against the flu by keeping flu viruses from reproducing in your body. If you get sick, antiviral drugs can make your illness milder and make you feel better faster. They may also prevent serious flu complications. For treatment, antiviral drugs work best if started soon after getting sick (within 2 days of symptoms).
http://www.cdc.gov/swineflu/swineflu_you.htm

Waiting for an expert to expand on this answer.
 
  • #19


drankin said:
I hope this doesn't turn out to be THE bug we've all been told is due to hit the human race.

I think the fact that we've already seen mild cases pretty much kills that concern.
 
  • #20


In the 1918 pandemic, a lot of those who died where healthy adults, because it is thought that in previous decade or so, similar, but less severe, influenza strains provided partial protection against the 1918 pandemic.

http://mitworld.mit.edu/video/323/
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/60816/laurie-garrett/the-next-pandemic

Normally, of course, people with weaker immune systems are more susceptible to these kinds of influenza.

Is influenza a potential threat to all of humanity? Of course. The estimated deathtoll from the 1918 pandemic is anywhere from 20-100 million, mostly due to the very sparse record from the Soviet Union (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2021692)

The question is not so much whether there will be another pandemic, but when.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8153259847548931048 (educational video from Spokane Regional Health District)
 
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  • #21


There is now an outbreak in New Zealand. I think that what you'll see is that there will be reported outbreaks first in the more developed countries, and everyone will wonder how the virus got to there from Mexico and then a week later we'll hear about large number of cases in less developed countries in Africa, because in these countries they won't notice much if just a handful people get a flu.

So, all the while the virus was already spreading from such less developed countries instead of directly from Mexico.
 
  • #22
Phrak said:
Are you an infant, over the age or 65? Do you have chronic pulmonary disorder?

http://www.who.int/csr/don/2009_04_24/en/index.html

The majority of these cases have occurred in otherwise healthy young adults. Influenza normally affects the very young and the very old, but these age groups have not been heavily affected in Mexico.

So don't count on being young and healthy.
 
  • #23


I've read that when a new pandemic virus arises, the immune system is slow to detect it in your body. Then, when your immune system does finally react, that reaction is the strongest in younger people, because the immune system is operating at maximum strength and that maximum strength is stronger if you are between 20 and 40.

This immune response is then so strong that it damages the lungs. Then fluids leak into the lungs and you suffocate to death.
 
  • #24


Read the book The Hot Zone and you will see why the CDC is taking this seriously.

Pretty scary stuff, the Influenza that is.
 
  • #25
Borek said:
http://www.who.int/csr/don/2009_04_24/en/index.html

In the US,
All seven confirmed cases had mild Influenza-Like Illness (ILI), with only one requiring brief hospitalization.

It doesn't sound like anyone has much to get excited about, with the exception of the CDC who are paid to get excited.
 
  • #26


Moridin said:
In the 1918 pandemic, a lot of those who died where healthy adults, because it is thought that in previous decade or so, similar, but less severe, influenza strains provided partial protection against the 1918 pandemic.

Last night I heard it reported that this is actually a hybid of four different flu viruses, so immunization to previous strains may provide some protection for this one. Interestingly, they forgot to mention that those who previously had the flu would also be partially protected.

Is influenza a potential threat to all of humanity? Of course. The estimated deathtoll from the 1918 pandemic is anywhere from 20-100 million, mostly due to the very sparse record from the Soviet Union (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2021692)

The question is not so much whether there will be another pandemic, but when.

Yes, it is a huge concern, but not something to panic about everytime we have an outbreak. For example, so far all cases here in the US have been mild, which clearly indicates that this not THE pandemic of concern.

Use your heads, take reasonable precautions, and relax. We have been through this sort of thing many, many times, and life will go on. Also, I have bad news: You are all going to die. It doesn't matter whether the flu or a Mack truck gets you. There is no doubt that driving your car poses a greater threat to your life than does the swine flu.
 
  • #27


Phrak said:
In the US,


It doesn't sound like anyone has much to get excited about, with the exception of the CDC who are paid to get excited.

In Mexico they have about 80 deaths out of 1300 which is not inconsistent with no deaths out of a dozen or so in the US.
 
  • #28


New suspected cases reported in Canada, Spain, France, and Scotland.
 
  • #29


A reported case in Israel:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gW5lBZvuysU9NLUb7vMhSt2mC3UA
 
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  • #30


Once again, the media starts a craze.

People die from the flu every year and it's global.
 
  • #31


Yep Evo, anywhere from 20 to 30,000 people die of the flu, or flu related illness{co-infections} each year in th USA.
 
  • #32


hypatia said:
Yep Evo, anywhere from 20 to 30,000 people die of the flu, or flu related illness{co-infections} each year in th USA.
Do you think I will be one of those statistics? I'm currentely working in a regional pseudo-rabies testing lab for the USDA where we test porcine blood daily. Any precautions other than lab coats and gloves?
 
  • #33


hypatia said:
Yep Evo, anywhere from 20 to 30,000 people die of the flu, or flu related illness{co-infections} each year in th USA.

These are mostly old and frail people who would have died within a few years anyway. In case of pandemic flu many young people will die.
 
  • #34


Count Iblis said:
These are mostly old and frail people who would have died within a few years anyway.
I guess I'm doomed.
 
  • #35


dlgoff said:
I guess I'm doomed.
Poor dl.
 
  • #36


Count Iblis said:
These are mostly old and frail people who would have died within a few years anyway. In case of pandemic flu many young people will die.
So far there is no medical evidence that young healthy people are more susceptible to this case of swine flu, nor is there evidence that it is particularly deadly. So far, ALL of the patients in the US have all recovered within a normal time frame of a couple of weeks.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm58d0424a1.htm

I think the poverty level in Central Mexico and lack of adequate healthcare is more to blaim for the deaths there. We aren't seeing it in the US.
 
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  • #37


This is interesting. Some of the California cases are here in San Diego County, where I live. Yesterday I was out at a street festival and there was a guy with a pet pig on a leash, walking it around like a dog.
 
  • #38


zoobyshoe said:
This is interesting. Some of the California cases are here in San Diego County, where I live. Yesterday I was out at a street festival and there was a guy with a pet pig on a leash, walking it around like a dog.
Can pigs catch swine flu from humans?
 
  • #39


Evo said:
Can pigs catch swine flu from humans?
I don't know, but if the pig was worried it was about other, more obvious threats humans pose to swine.
 
  • #40


FireSky86 said:
Read the book The Hot Zone and you will see why the CDC is taking this seriously.

Pretty scary stuff, the Influenza that is.

Yes I read that book, it's very informative. In 1918 we didn't have large numbers of people flying from continent to continent, like we do now. Yet it's terrifying http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu" .
 
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  • #41
lisab said:
Yes I read that book, it's very informative. In 1918 we didn't have large numbers of people flying from continent to continent, like we do now. Yet it's terrifying http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu" .
Actually tuberculosis was a major killer at that time too. The public didn't have access to medical care needed to treat the symptoms.

I found this interesting.

UC Berkeley Demographer Finds Undetected Tuberculosis May Have Been Real Killer in 1918 Flu Epidemic

http://www.library.csi.cuny.edu/dept/history/lavender/389/flu.html

I wonder how much of the population at that time could have already been weakened by undetected tuberculosis and therefore at a greater risk of complications?

Don't forget how primitive medicine was in 1918.
 
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  • #42
Evo said:
Actually tuberculosis was a major killer at that time too. The public didn't have access to medical care needed to treat the symptoms.

I found this interesting.



http://www.library.csi.cuny.edu/dept/history/lavender/389/flu.html

I wonder how much of the population at that time could have already been weakened by undetected tuberculosis and therefore at a greater risk of complications?

Don't forget how primitive medicine was in 1918.

Very interesting link. I wonder, does "garden variety" flu pose an increased risk of death to a person with TB?
 
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  • #43


lisab said:
Very interesting link. I wonder, does "garden variety" flu pose an increased risk of death to a person with TB?
I would suppose. Since so many people came down with the flu in 1918, that the high numbers of people with TB would account for increased deaths makes sense.

Noymer's findings explain a peculiarity of the 1918 pandemic that killed at least 20 million people worldwide.

Normally, the influenza virus is not lethal to young and middle-aged people. Most of its victims are elderly. But in 1918, the typical victim was a man between the ages of 20 and 40, a group that normally has a very low death rate, said Noymer.

In the early 20th century, however, tuberculosis was a major killer of men in that age group, apparently because of transmission in factories where men worked in densely-packed, poorly-ventilated conditions, Noymer said. Men were about 30 percent more likely to die from TB than women were-a pattern closely paralleled during the flu epidemic.

In 1918, men were 35 percent more likely than women to die from flu. Of the 500,000 Americans who died that year, 280,000-300,000 were men.

"This can't be a coincidence," said Noymer. "I think TB is the missing piece of the puzzle. It explains why younger people, especially men, died in such great numbers. Scientists since 1918 have been searching for clues for why the 1918 epidemic was so deadly, especially in middle age. But people did not look at what happened to tuberculosis death rates, not only in the epidemic year, but in the years afterwards."

His findings explain another mystery. Scientists who have attempted to study the gene sequence of the 1918 influenza virus have seen nothing out of the ordinary, nothing to explain the flu's virulence.

"Never before or since have we seen a flu epidemic that was so virulent," said Noymer. "The spread was extremely rapid, as was the development of the infection. Almost everyone who died was gone in two weeks.

"I do believe my finding explains most of the deadliness of the 1918 epidemic. It doesn't prove that, if another strain were to appear, that the U.S. population would be safe, but it strongly suggests that we would fare much better."

Noymer's analysis shows that the 500,000 people who died in 1918 were almost exactly the number who would have been in various stages of disease from TB. Using pre-1918 death rates, Noymer calculated that 500,000 more TB deaths would have occurred between 1918 and 1932 had there never been a flu epidemic.

As a result of the excess death among men in 1918, a healthier male population was left, said Noymer. For years afterward, the life expectancy of men, which usually lagged behind women by six years, moved up to more closely resemble the female pattern. It was this startling change that sparked Noymer's research, when he saw something no demographer had ever noticed before - a precipitous drop in 1919 in the gender differential from six to two years.

"When I saw that," said Noymer, " I said to myself, 'That's the flu!' And, surprise, surprise, it leaves the same mortality patterns on age and sex that TB does."

Co-author on the article is Michel Garenne, senior researcher at the French center for population and development studies, CEPED, Centre français sur la population et le développement.
 
  • #44


Count Iblis said:
In Mexico they have about 80 deaths out of 1300 which is not inconsistent with no deaths out of a dozen or so in the US.

take it back. And it a significantly larger number of trials.
 
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  • #45


Phrak said:
Are you an infant, over the age or 65? Do you have chronic pulmonary disorder?

Didn't think so.

According to my wife (who is somewhat involved in all this), this flu has killed mostly young adults in Mexico. She said that young adults in the modern World have less resistance to attack by severe flu since they have suffered less exposure to infectious disease than older people so it is possible to get a bad reaction.

See:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090424/ap_on_he_me/med_swine_flu

The above article said this:
Epidemiologists are particularly concerned because the only fatalities so far were in young people and adults.
 
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  • #46


wildman said:
According to my wife (who is somewhat involved in all this), this flu has killed mostly young adults in Mexico. She said that young adults in the modern World have less resistance to attack by severe flu since they have suffered less exposure to infectious disease than older people so it is possible to get a bad reaction.

See:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090424/ap_on_he_me/med_swine_flu

The above article said this:

In the past, severe pandemics also seem to have targeted young adults. It's one of the reasons this particular strain of influenza has caught the attention of public health officials worldwide.
 
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  • #47
Will a gas mask protect against swine flu?

I was just thinking how cool it would be a buy a gas mask and walk around with it in public to freak people out making them think it was that bad and I was wondering would any reasonably priced mask actually offer protection? I have tried to research this but I can't find much useful information about the extent of protection these masks have against viruses. If I were to get something useful (like a full face mask) how much would it cost and what is the de facto standard model or type?
 
  • #48
lisab said:
In the past, severe pandemics also seem to have targeted young adults.
Young adults that possibly already had tuberculosis.

http://www.library.csi.cuny.edu/dept/history/lavender/389/flu.html
 
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  • #49
Evo said:
Young adults that possibly already had tuberculosis.

http://www.library.csi.cuny.edu/dept/history/lavender/389/flu.html

Hmm, interesting idea. I'll ask my wife to check if there is any connection.
 
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  • #50
Could tuberculosis be a factor in the Mexican fatalities?

21 per 100K population, 2008 WHO report. It doesn't seem a significant factor...
http://www.usaid.gov/our_work/global_health/id/tuberculosis/countries/lac/mexico_profile.html"
 
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