Systems held together by gravity

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a system of particles held together by mutual gravitational attraction, specifically examining the relationship between kinetic and potential energy when energy is added to the system. The original poster questions whether the total kinetic energy increases or decreases after adding energy and waiting for the system to equilibrate.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the implications of adding energy to a gravitational system, questioning how this affects kinetic and potential energy. Some participants reference specific systems, like the earth-moon system, to illustrate their points. There is a discussion about the concept of negative heat capacity and how it relates to energy distribution in the system.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with various interpretations being explored. Some participants provide mathematical reasoning to support their claims, while others express confusion about the concepts presented in the literature. There is no explicit consensus, but several lines of reasoning have been shared that contribute to the understanding of the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of the system's behavior, particularly regarding the negative heat capacity and the relationship between kinetic and potential energy. The original poster acknowledges difficulty in articulating their understanding without relying on the textbook's explanations.

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Homework Statement


For any system of particles held together by mutual attraction
U(potential) = -2 U(Kinetic)

Suppose you add energy to such a system and wait for it to equilibrate, does the total kinetic energy increase or decrease? Explain

Homework Equations


The Attempt at a Solution


Apparently the kinetic energy decreases. How can you explain this?
 
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Well, suppose you add energy to the earth-moon system. That moves the moon to a higher orbit. Does the kinetic energy decrease or increase?
 
Dick said:
Well, suppose you add energy to the earth-moon system. That moves the moon to a higher orbit. Does the kinetic energy decrease or increase?

It would increase and that's what I thought. But the book says that it is a system with a negative heat capacity. It's entropy vs. energy graph is concave-up. When you add energy, all the energy apparently goes into the potential energy and the particles in the system get farther apart and actually slow down. I don't fully understand this and don't know how to to give the explanation without just repeating what the book says
 
Actually the moon moving to a higher orbit means that it must slow down...

Note: mv^2/r=GMm/r^2 (M is mass of Earth, m is mass of moon)=> v=sqrt(GM/r) so that as r increases, v decreases.

Increasing the energy of a system in virial equilibrium goes like this:

E increases, so that T+U increases, but U=-2T, so that T-2T=-T increases. An increase in "negative T" means that T decreases and U increases. By U increases, we mean U becomes less negative.

For example, if E=-2J, T=2J, U=-4J, and I add 1J to this system, E now has to be -1J, and now I have a system of equations:

-1J=T+U, and U=-2T. Solving: -1J=T-2T=-T => T=1J, U=-2J. So you notice that U got less negative (went up) and T went down.
 
Hey, I tried to do this in this way:

I use [tex]V[/tex] for potential energy and [tex]T[/tex] for kinetic energy.

Given equation reads:

[tex]V=-2T[/tex]

[tex]V+T=-T[/tex]

Now you see that the left hand site is a total energy:

[tex]E_{tot}=-T[/tex]

Differentiate the whole thing:

[tex]dE_{tot}=-dT[/tex]

So if the total energy is increasing then [tex]dE_{tot}>0[/tex] and thus [tex]dT<0[/tex]. This means that the kinetic energy is decreasing.
 
Thanks everyone. I realize my mistake was trying to explain it with just words
 

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