The big bang singularity and black hole singularity

In summary, the concept of an initial singularity has been proposed in both the Big Bang model and the center of a black hole. However, scientists do not accept the singularity as real and have offered alternative explanations, such as inflation or loop quantum cosmology. The singularity is often described as a one-dimensional point with infinite density, where the laws of physics break down. However, it is not possible to accurately describe or understand the singularity using these terms.
  • #1
wolram
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In the big bang model the singularity is all ways quoted as being the start of the universe, but AFAIK scientists do not accept the singularity as real, the same with the black hole singularity, what is proposed to be in their place?

from Wiki.
The initial singularity was the gravitational singularity of infinite density thought to have contained all of the mass and spacetime of the Universe[1] before quantum fluctuations caused it to rapidly expand in the Big Bang and subsequent inflation, creating the present-day Universe.[2] The initial singularity is part of the Planck epoch, the earliest period of time in the history of the universe

http://www.physicsoftheuniverse.com/topics_blackholes_singularities.html
SINGULARITIES

In the centre of a black hole is a gravitational singularity, a one-dimensional point which contains a huge mass in an infinitely small space, where density and gravity become infinite and space-timecurves infinitely, and where the laws of physics as we know them cease to operate. As the eminent American physicist Kip Thorne describes it, it is "the point where all laws of physics break down"

Here they talk of a one dimensional point is that even possible?
 
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  • #2
wolram said:
In the big bang model the singularity is all ways quoted as being the start of the universe, but AFAIK scientists do not accept the singularity as real, the same with the black hole singularity, what is proposed to be in their place?
There are multiple ideas.

With inflation, it's often proposed that there was an initial quantum fluctuation in the finite past which kicked off inflation. This initial quantum fluctuation would have selected a value of the inflaton field that was high enough in energy over a finite region to start off inflation. With this model, it's not possible to simply extrapolate backward in time to find this initial state.

With loop quantum cosmology, there was a previous collapsing universe which, once it became sufficiently dense, bounced back and started expanding again. No singularity is reached during the bounce.
 
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  • #3
On the question of the blavk hole singularity what do they mean by a one dimensional point is that even possible?
 
  • #4
wolram said:
On the question of the blavk hole singularity what do they mean by a one dimensional point is that even possible?
It means it has no physical size. It's one-dimensional in the sense that it still extends through time, but has no spatial dimensions at all.

No, I'm pretty sure that it's not possible. It's essentially dividing by zero.
 
  • #5
wolram said:
On the question of the blavk hole singularity what do they mean by a one dimensional point is that even possible?
The rough translation of "a one dimensional point" is "I have no idea what I'm talking about so I'm just going to say things".
 
  • #6
wolram said:
In the centre of a black hole is a gravitational singularity, a one-dimensional point

No, it isn't. If we are going to try to describe the singularity in these terms, it's a spacelike line, not a point. This is assuming we're talking about a Schwarzschild black hole (i.e., not rotating or charged).

Chalnoth said:
It's one-dimensional in the sense that it still extends through time

The black hole singularity in Schwarzschild spacetime is spacelike, not timelike. It should be thought of as a moment of time, not a place in space.
 

FAQ: The big bang singularity and black hole singularity

1. What is the difference between the big bang singularity and the black hole singularity?

The big bang singularity refers to the point at which the universe began expanding from a single, infinitely dense point. In contrast, the black hole singularity is a point within a black hole where the gravitational pull is infinitely strong and the laws of physics break down.

2. Can we observe the big bang singularity or the black hole singularity?

No, we cannot directly observe either singularity. The big bang singularity is thought to have occurred nearly 13.8 billion years ago and is beyond the reach of our current technology. The black hole singularity is hidden behind the event horizon of a black hole, making it impossible to observe.

3. Can anything escape from a black hole singularity?

No, according to our current understanding of physics, nothing can escape from a black hole singularity. The strong gravitational pull of the singularity traps even light, which is why black holes are invisible. However, some theories suggest that quantum effects may allow for particles to escape, but this has not been proven.

4. Is it possible for a black hole singularity to merge with a big bang singularity?

No, it is not possible for these two singularities to merge. The big bang singularity is a point in the past, while the black hole singularity exists in the present. Additionally, the big bang singularity was the beginning of the universe, while black holes are formed from the collapse of massive stars.

5. What happens at the center of a black hole singularity?

At the center of a black hole singularity, the laws of physics as we know them break down. The singularity is a point of infinite density and infinite curvature, where time and space become meaningless. Our current understanding of physics cannot fully explain what happens at the singularity, and further research is needed to understand this phenomenon.

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