The orgin of the superposition principle of electric field

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the origin and implications of the superposition principle of the electric field, particularly in relation to linear Maxwell's equations and the additivity of forces. Participants explore theoretical foundations, mathematical expressions, and conceptual interpretations of these principles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the superposition principle is fundamentally linked to the additivity of forces, referencing Jackson's electrodynamics and linear Maxwell's equations.
  • Others argue that linearity, as seen in Gauss' law, supports the superposition principle mathematically, allowing for the combination of electric fields from multiple sources.
  • A participant questions whether the addability of forces is sufficient to explain the superposition principle, suggesting that nonlinear Maxwell's equations would still allow for force addability but not necessarily yield the correct net force.
  • Another participant asserts that the net force is always the vector sum of all forces, indicating a potential disconnect between force addability and the implications of Maxwell's equations.
  • There is a discussion about whether linear Maxwell's equations are equivalent to the principle that net force equals the vector sum of forces, with some seeking clarification on this relationship.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between the superposition principle, force addability, and the linearity of Maxwell's equations. No consensus is reached, and multiple competing interpretations remain present.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about linearity and its implications, as well as the specific conditions under which the superposition principle applies. There are unresolved questions regarding the relationship between force addability and the mathematical framework of Maxwell's equations.

feynman1
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Isn't the superposition principle of electric field just force being addable? Jackson's electrodynamics says it's based on the premise of linear Maxwell's equations. Which support(s) the superposition principle?
 
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If something is linear, e.g. Gauss' law, then $$\nabla \cdot (\mathbf{E}_1 + \mathbf{E}_2) = \nabla \cdot \mathbf{E}_1 + \nabla \cdot \mathbf{E}_2$$ So really if you have ##\nabla \cdot \mathbf{E}_1 = \frac{\rho_1}{\epsilon_0}## and ##\nabla \cdot \mathbf{E}_2 = \frac{\rho_2}{\epsilon_0}## then you also have ##\nabla \cdot (\mathbf{E}_1 + \mathbf{E}_2) = \frac{\rho_1 + \rho_2}{\epsilon_0}##

It's the same principle that let's you superpose two solutions to the wave equation.
 
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etotheipi said:
If something is linear, e.g. Gauss' law, then $$\nabla \cdot (\mathbf{E}_1 + \mathbf{E}_2) = \nabla \cdot \mathbf{E}_1 + \nabla \cdot \mathbf{E}_2$$ So really if you have ##\nabla \cdot \mathbf{E}_1 = \frac{\rho_1}{\epsilon_0}## and ##\nabla \cdot \mathbf{E}_2 = \frac{\rho_2}{\epsilon_0}## then you also have ##\nabla \cdot (\mathbf{E}_1 + \mathbf{E}_2) = \frac{\rho_1 + \rho_2}{\epsilon_0}##

It's the same principle that let's you superpose two solutions to the wave equation.
Thanks. I think you disagree with force being addable being the basis of superposition of electricity. If Maxwell's equations were nonlinear, forces would still be generally addable yet the vector sum of forces wouldn't be the correct net force, but rather just another force.
 
feynman1 said:
Isn't the superposition principle of electric field just force being addable? Jackson's electrodynamics says it's based on the premise of linear Maxwell's equations. Which support(s) the superposition principle?
"Linear" is the technical term for "addable": f (a+b) = f(a) + f(b)
 
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feynman1 said:
Thanks. I think you disagree with force being addable being the basis of superposition of electricity. If Maxwell's equations were nonlinear, forces would still be generally addable yet the vector sum of forces wouldn't be the correct net force, but rather just another force.

I'm not sure if I quite follow. The net force is the vector sum of all of the forces, that doesn't directly relate to Maxwell's equations. It's still always true.

You could apply the principle of superposition to forces at a point on an object too. If ##\vec{F}_1 = m\vec{a}_1## and ##\vec{F}_2 = m\vec{a}_2##, then ##\vec{F}_{net} = \vec{F}_1 + \vec{F}_2 = m(\vec{a}_1 + \vec{a}_2)##.

It's just two different ways of approaching the same thing.
 
A.T. said:
"Linear" is the technical term for "addable": f (a+b) = f(a) + f(b)
Yes. So do you think linear Maxwell is exactly equivalent to net force being equal to the vector sum of forces?
 

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