Thermal physics -- Latent heat melting ice

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a thermal physics problem involving latent heat and the melting of ice. Participants are exploring the energy calculations required to determine the final temperature after ice melts into water, considering the energy absorbed and released during the phase change.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the energy required to melt ice and the subsequent energy calculations for the resulting water. Questions arise regarding the correctness of the calculations and the implications of the final temperature being above or below 0°C.

Discussion Status

There is ongoing exploration of the calculations, with some participants questioning the assumptions made about the final temperature and the correctness of the energy expressions used. Guidance has been offered regarding potential errors in signs and the need to verify calculations against the equations.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of a homework assignment, which may limit the information available for the problem. There is a focus on ensuring all ice melts and the implications of the final temperature on the calculations.

Cici2017

Homework Statement


Question (b) (iii)
屏幕快照 2017-11-07 下午11.25.14.png

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


The energy required to melt the ice is
Q1=mL=3*0.025*3.3*10^5=24750J
The energy released by water is
Q2=mcT=0.33*4200*(22-T)

Shall I calculate the energy that the ice needs after it melts into water?
i.e. Q3=0.075*4200*(0-T)

So Q1+Q3=Q2 and then just solve for T?

Is that right? I did it this way but got a different answer to the mark scheme.
 

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Will the final temperature T be greater or lower than 0°C?
 
Do the calculation assuming that all the ice melts. If the final calculated temperature comes out above 0C, you're through. What if the final calculated temperature comes out below 0C? Then what can you say about the final temperature? How does this change the calculation?
 
DoItForYourself said:
Will the final temperature T be greater or lower than 0°C?
Should be greater than 0
 
Chestermiller said:
Do the calculation assuming that all the ice melts. If the final calculated temperature comes out above 0C, you're through. What if the final calculated temperature comes out below 0C? Then what can you say about the final temperature? How does this change the calculation?
What calculations do I need to do?
 
Cici2017 said:
What calculations do I need to do?
Your expression for Q3 has the wrong sign.

So, what do you get when you solve your equations for T?
 
Chestermiller said:
Your expression for Q3 has the wrong sign.

So, what do you get when you solve your equations for T?
T=4.05
 
Cici2017 said:
T=4.05
Good. When you substitute this back into your equations, does this satisfy them?
 
Chestermiller said:
Good. When you substitute this back into your equations, does this satisfy them?
um... not quite. I got Q1+Q3=26025.75 and Q2=24878.7
 
  • #10
Cici2017 said:
Should be greater than 0

Yes, in case the ice melts completely, the temperature should be greater than 0°C. If the ice does not melt compeltely, this means that the thermal energy of the water is not enough and its initial temperature must be increased in order to melt completely the ice.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #11
Cici2017 said:
T=4.05
As you found, this is not right. Please post your working.
 
  • #12
haruspex said:
As you found, this is not right. Please post your working.
I followed the logic in my attempt. Is that wrong or is there something wrong in my calculation?
 
  • #13
Cici2017 said:
I followed the logic in my attempt. Is that wrong or is there something wrong in my calculation?
Did you correct the sign error pointed out in post #6?
If so, you should have got the right answer. I cannot tell where you went wrong without seeing your working.
 

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