Thermodynamics and microwaving food

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    Food Thermodynamics
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the thermodynamic implications of microwaving food in plastic containers, particularly focusing on the behavior of the container during heating and cooling. Participants explore the relevant thermodynamic variables and the conditions affecting them, as well as potential health concerns related to the materials used.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions which thermodynamic variables remain constant during microwaving, noting that volume is not constant and suggesting that the number of particles may be approximately constant.
  • Another participant suggests using a different type of dish for microwaving, implying that the choice of container affects the outcome.
  • A participant mentions that Gibbs free energy calculations require constant temperature and pressure, but notes that temperature is not constant in a microwave.
  • A later reply indicates that if the container buckled inward, it may be due to water vapor escaping during heating and condensing upon cooling, creating a partial vacuum.
  • Another participant proposes that the container may have warped due to heat, leading to a change in volume and potentially the loss of particles, suggesting that N is not conserved in this case.
  • This participant also raises concerns about the possibility of chemicals outgassing from the plastic, which could contaminate the food.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the thermodynamic variables at play and the implications of using plastic containers in microwaves. There is no consensus on the specific conditions or outcomes related to the microwaving process.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various assumptions regarding the behavior of water vapor, the structural integrity of the plastic, and the potential for chemical contamination, but these assumptions remain unresolved and depend on specific conditions not fully explored in the discussion.

berra
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Hi, I just microwaved some food in a plastic container and noticed that it started to buckle inwards. So I wonder what thermodynamic variables were constant? Obviously not the volume V. The number of particles N was probably approximately constant. What more than N was constant?? What ensemble should I use if I want to do computations on this??
 
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What computations? Use a different type of dish to microwave your food.
 
Thermodynamical computations. Gibbs free energy requires temperature and pressure constant, for example. But the temperature is certainly not constant when heating in a microwave.
 
berra said:
Hi, I just microwaved some food in a plastic container and noticed that it started to buckle inwards. So I wonder what thermodynamic variables were constant? Obviously not the volume V. The number of particles N was probably approximately constant. What more than N was constant?? What ensemble should I use if I want to do computations on this??
If it buckled inwards (and warpage of the plastic was not a problem, see SteamKing response), some mass of water vapor must have escaped from the container during the heating. If it only buckled when the container cooled down, then this is almost certainly what happened. When the container cooled, the remaining water vapor in the container mostly condensed, and this created a partial vacuum in the container. The walls were not structurally stiff enough to support the pressure difference.

Chet
 
Alternatively the plastic container warped with the heat and became permanently warped. If that's the case then
1st: The volume changed because the container changed, particles were most likely lost. N is not conserved.
2nd: The plastic outgassed some chemicals into your food contaminating it. I wouldn't use this kind of container in the micro-wave any more.
 

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