Things that can be observed in a snapshot view of the universe

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of observing the universe in a "snapshot" view, exploring what properties can be measured in such a scenario and the implications of those measurements. Participants delve into the theoretical aspects of static properties like mass and position versus dynamic properties like velocity, and how these relate to the overall state of the universe.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that in a snapshot of the universe, static properties such as mass, force, and position can be observed, but velocity and thus kinetic energy or momentum cannot be directly measured.
  • Another participant challenges the initial claim about inferring acceleration without velocity, pointing out that redshift could provide velocity information, although the concept of stopping time complicates the scenario.
  • A third participant questions the definition of "snapshot," suggesting it implies knowing the position and properties of every particle, and emphasizes that without velocities, a complete specification of the system state is unattainable.
  • This participant further explains that the extra information needed includes velocities and the instantaneous rates of change of fields, which cannot be derived from a static snapshot.
  • The original poster clarifies their understanding of "snapshot" and expresses a desire to explore why certain properties are inherently present in a static view while others require external specification.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of a snapshot of the universe, particularly regarding the ability to infer certain properties. There is no consensus on the nature of the information that can be derived from such a snapshot, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding the relationship between static and dynamic properties, as well as the assumptions involved in defining a "snapshot" of the universe.

Jehannum
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TL;DR
I'm interested in separating out things that can be observed by looking at a picture of the universe at a single moment in time, and things that can't
If we took a snapshot of the entire universe (or if we stopped time) but still had the power to move around and measure, we could observe static properties such as:

Mass
Force
Position

From the above, we would be able to infer acceleration. But we couldn't observe present velocity and therefore kinetic energy or momentum.

Therefore the state of the universe isn't fully encoded in its own three dimensions. Yet, if we were to restart the universe, objects would move at their previous velocity.

Where is this extra information "stored"?

What is the fundamental difference between properties that can be measured in the snapshot (e.g. mass) and those that can't (velocity)?

Is the answer simply "spacetime"?
 
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Hi,

Wrong starting point
Jehannum said:
From the above, we would be able to infer acceleration. But we couldn't observe present velocity and therefore kinetic energy or momentum.
The redsdhift would give us velocity. But taking a snapshot with time stopped is difficult 😉
 
By “snapshot” do you mean a specification of the position of every particle in the universe? So that we have that information as well as the properties (charge, mass, ...) of each particle? And other things that we can measure by “moving around”, such as the current value of time-varying electromagnetic fields?

Jehannum said:
From the above, we would be able to infer acceleration.
We don’t have enough to infer accelerations because magnetic forces depend on velocities.

More generally, in classical physics a particle has six degrees of freedom: position in each of three dimensions and velocity (or momentum) in each of three dimensions. A “snapshot” as I’m understanding what you mean only captures three of them so we don’t have a complete specification of the system state.

Thus the “extra information” we need is the velocities, which are the first derivative of position with respect to time, and the instantaneous rate of change of the field values , which are also first derivatives of measurable quantities. That’s what cannot be found from a “snapshot”.
 
Nugatory said:
By “snapshot” do you mean a specification of the position of every particle in the universe? So that we have that information as well as the properties (charge, mass, ...) of each particle? And other things that we can measure by “moving around”, such as the current value of time-varying electromagnetic fields?

Yes, this is essentially what I mean.

I'm trying to understand how/why it is that some things like position and mass are "encoded" in a static 3-D picture (which is in effect the universe itself) simply by dint of being there, but other properties (e.g. velocity) have to be specified externally.

I know this all seems a little vague - it's a half-formed idea that I need a bit of help crystallising: stepping back from assumptions and going to first principles. Thanks for the replies so far. They have been helpful.
 

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