- #36
coverme
- 46
- 1
Dear AshNZ , I advice that talking the problem here would make many of support,many to disagree and liitle neutral
Debate goes on
You believe yourself what really happened to you and what you need to do
jarednjames said:I think a person who takes the time to learn the work properly will be more likely to have a better idea of the subject work.
I hate exams, I don't think they accurately demonstrate a persons ability well at all.
The OP specifically complains about people who only cram at the last minute, enough information to get them through the exam.
OP said:As a result of this, the guys who ONLY went through last 1-2 exam papers the night before did a better job than I did.
Your real life situation is slightly different to cramming for an exam. In your situation, yes getting straight to the point and not wasting time is key. However, that is no way to revise. Are you saying you agree people should simply learn what is required to pass the exams and not do any additional work outside that required to pass? To me, if you do not do the extra work the uni assigns you, you miss out on a part of your education and are wasting your time being there.
"No one wants to hire you because you have 'sound knowledge' " - why am I doing a degree if companies don't want me to have a strong knowledge of the subject matter? What you have just said there is that a company doesn't want a person who knows the subject extremely well.
I always study the past exam papers, the OP has a problem with people who simply study the past exam papers only. And in his particular case, the questions were repeated.
Cyrus said:Meanwhile, it was the OP himself who was doing the cramming.
When did I say that? (Please don't argue things I'm not saying) I don't understand what you mean by 'no way to revise'.
Having a 'strong knowledge' means doing graduate level work that is equal or above that of industry. If you do not have graduate level understanding of engineering (or equivalent through work experience) all you have is "strong fundamentals". Aka, to a company they still need to teach you how to do things.
OP:"Hey boss, I just spend 99.99% of my time getting paid by you to read all 200 pages of this book"
Boss: "I Told you to order the part from page 200, why did this take you so long? Bob down the hallway did it in half the time"
jarednjames said:Your real life situation is slightly different to cramming for an exam. In your situation, yes getting straight to the point and not wasting time is key. However, that is no way to revise.
I do apologise, it's just I'm used to using it so it's quite natural to me.
That is cramming, spending 6-7 hours a day studying in your last week for one course. You couldn't have been doing more than skimming the words. By the time you are in finals week, you shouldn't NEED to read 200 pages. You should already know the material fairly well and spend the final week just buffing up the weak areas and making sure you can do the hardest problems, and making sure you've learned the most recently presented material.AshNZ said:Few things:
- 200 pages in 2 days is not hard especially during the study week. Think about it - I spent 6-7 hours each day and that's about 15 pages/hour. Not uncommon at all during study week and it is not cramming.
cristo said:That's nonsense. Cramming is leaving studying to the last minute and then doing so only to pass the exam. The person who did the 1-2 past papers the night before is the one cramming for the exam.
Moonbear said:Do you know what happens when you only get 70% of a pump design right, or 70% of a levee designed right, or 70% of a bridge designed right? It fails.
Not necessarily. That's the point I'm trying to make. Everyone is assuming that is ALL they did and the only time they looked at those exams.
arildno said:What I did instead was, throughout the semester, to work systematically with the material, not neglecting to go back on topics covered weeks before (in case I had forgotten about it).
cristo said:That's like comparing apples with goats. How can you extrapolate a score in an exam to performance on a task in a real engineering job? Furthermore, you're assuming that he got 70% of every question right, which is likely not true: how do you know he didn't get 7 questions correct and 3 questions wrong? That shows knowledge in most areas, having overlooked one area, say.
Anyway, an exam is not a complete task, so it doesn't make sense to compare this to designing 70% of a bridge correctly. You also aren't likely to be sat down and told to design a bridge in a couple of hour timeframe to then have the designs taken away from you and sent off to the manufacturer with no chance to consult any reference books, or other people, or have drafts etc etc..
jarednjames said:In the OP he specifically says that reading the past exam papers in the last two days before the exam is ALL the others did.
cristo said:Anyway, an exam is not a complete task, so it doesn't make sense to compare this to designing 70% of a bridge correctly. You also aren't likely to be sat down and told to design a bridge in a couple of hour timeframe to then have the designs taken away from you and sent off to the manufacturer with no chance to consult any reference books, or other people, or have drafts etc etc..
Cyrus said:What do you think happens in real world engineering? Project deadlines have to be met. In other words, you have to work, and work quickly much like an exam. (It's not 100% the same, but the point still stands).
jarednjames said:Moonbear, you cannot compare an exam to an assignment. Any real world project is an assignment, not a closed book exam. No body knows everything. My lecturers keep on that they don't expect us to remember everything (wrt formulas and stuff) and so they provide tables of them in the exams. 70% in an exam simply means that person knew that much at that point without any external help, this not taking into account stress levels within the exam. Some people (me included) get extremely stressed/anxious going into exams and it does affect me performance wise, regardless of how well I know the subject. (not sure of this but how many companies shut you in a room with only a pen an paper and expect you to design a product for them without any outside referencing? I'm guessing none.)
Generally we get our exam timetable a month in advance but even so we know when the exams are coming. Regardless you should be working throughout.
jarednjames said:Yes the point stands, but how often do you walk into an exam with materials to help you such as textbooks? I am yet to find a person who sits in an exam and (within rules) asks the question on PF. There is help available in the real world. In an exam there is not. I understand the whole deadline side of things, but assignments also have deadlines you have to work to.
Cyrus said:Every time I have an open book exam. My last class was like that, in fact all my graduate exams are like that.
jarednjames said:I don't get stressed with assignments, just exams, I really don't know why. I spend ages learning and perfecting the work until I can do almost all problems I see, yet as soon as the exam starts I just panic, my biggest problem is I over-think things far too much and end up second-guessing myself.
None of my exams are open book. Although that is something I disagree with, I think exams should be open book as that reflects more on your ability to use your own knowledge and materials correctly, as in real world (again, this view also relates to my problem above).
I have to disagree with you there. I have personally sat examinations where before the exam, the lecturer has admitted that we will be expected to know material that he cannot remember, without reference to a text. One lecturer has gone on to admit that he believes that a particular exam should be an open-book exam, because of the vast amounts of material we were required to know. Perhaps the ethos is a little different in the US, but in the UK often-times the lecture's hands are tied by board, who dictate what is on the exam.Moonbear said:If you were to write an exam, what would you put on it? Would you pick the material that most people in practice will just look up as they work, or would you pick the content that anyone in the field should have a working knowledge of without having to consult a reference book every time they need to use it? Unless the professor is a complete hardnose, exams are usually written keeping in mind the material that they really feel a student needs to have mastered to be competent in that field.
That is utter garbage Cyrus! In no way whatsoever is working to a tight deadline like sitting a closed book examination.Cyrus said:I hope you don't get stressed when your boss say's he wants this done by FRIDAY, no excuses.
Hootenanny said:That is utter garbage Cyrus! In no way whatsoever is working to a tight deadline like sitting a closed book examination.
I DON'T in my exams, so how is my statement wrong? If I don't have books in my exams, it is not like a real world situation.Cyrus said:This statement is wrong. You just said yourself (In the real world you have access to your books). The exams I just told you that I have to take, are very much like a real world task.
jarednjames said:I DON'T in my exams, so how is my statement wrong? If I don't have books in my exams, it is not like a real world situation.
Cyrus said:...I wasn't talking about your exams.
Indeed I did, I apologise.Cyrus said:You misread what I wrote Hoot.
jarednjames said:Then where? I said real world is like assignments, and that you have materials in both. Please point out what you were talking about.
. Although that is something I disagree with, I think exams should be open book as that reflects more on your ability to use your own knowledge and materials correctly, as in real world (again, this view also relates to my problem above).
Cyrus said:You said:
Dammit, now I misread you! I thought you said exams shouldn't be open book.
Forget what I said earlier.
jarednjames said:Already done, fair enough.
Out of curiosity, do you prefer open or closed book? I mean, yeah closed book are a good judgement of what a person has learnt, but to me it doesn't reflect real life. What type of questions do you get? Mine are usually example based on a real life situation (another reason they should be open book). I suppose it comes down to what you want to test.
Cyrus said:It depends on the level of the class. For junior/senior/graduate level work, I've mostly had open book or open note exams. The reason is that you simply don't have time to read the book during the exam. It's only useful for finding the equations and tables in the back. Even then, you're better off putting the major formulas on a sheet and using that sheet instead of the book because flipping pages for each equation takes time.
For freshman/sophomore courses the equations are so basic it makes more sense to have them memorize it.
jarednjames said:Of course, I understand the whole memorizing of basic equations, but at the same time I have 4 classes running together and so the quantity mounts quickly. Escpecially as you progress through the years, the amount of equations alongside the other materials puts far too much strain on you when it comes to remembering it.
Cyrus said:I don't know what courses you're taking, but 4 sophomore courses is cake compared to what your junior/senior courses will be. Welcome to engineering.