Time dilation -- light clock on a train thought experiment

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the origins of the light clock thought experiment, particularly in the context of a train, and its attribution to specific authors. Participants explore historical references and the evolution of the thought experiment in physics literature.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the light clock thought experiment is found in Einstein's original 1905 paper, "On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies."
  • Others suggest that the concept of thought experiments in moving frames dates back to earlier physicists, potentially including Newton.
  • A participant questions the specific attribution of the light clock on a train thought experiment, seeking clarity on who first used that particular imagery.
  • It is noted that while Einstein's 1905 paper includes a light clock, he does not explicitly use the term "light clock" in that context.
  • One participant mentions that the imagery of a light clock on a train likely first appeared in Einstein's 1916 book, "Relativity: The Special and the General Theory."
  • Another participant references a 1909 book, "The Principle of Relativity, and Non-Newtonian Mechanics," as an early example of the thought experiment being discussed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definitive attribution of the light clock thought experiment, with some asserting it can be attributed to Einstein while others highlight the ambiguity surrounding its origins.

Contextual Notes

There is uncertainty regarding the specific terminology used by Einstein and how it has evolved over time, as well as the potential influence of earlier thought experiments on the development of this concept.

DAC
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Who first came up with the light clock on a train thought experiment.
 
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It's in Einstein's original 1905 paper...
On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies. Annalen der Physik 17 (1905): 891-921.
http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/

I think doing thought experiments in closed moving boxes dates back to Newton or further - with the kid of box being updated for different transport modes as technology changes.
 
DAC said:
Who first came up with the light clock on a train thought experiment.
Whereabouts?
 
Section 3.
Einstein initially works it out using light propagating in the x direction, then considers the analagous situation with propagation in the z and y directions. The freshman-physics simplification of a light-ray in a box follows naturally.
 
Thanks but my question was who first came up with the particular light clock on a train thought experiment.
 
Then I'm afraid you are going to have to define your terms.
The 1905 paper has a light-clock in it (a beam of light traversing a perpendicular path in the rest-frame of the source) - Einstein just does not use those words.

Are you asking who first thought to reword the description Einstein gave in the 1905 paper explicitly in terms of the "light clock" and "train" imagery - that's Einstein again ... probably first used in a lecture, but the imagery appears in his 1916 book Relativity: The Special and the General Theory.

What are you hoping to learn?
 
I'm just surprised such a widely used thought experiment can't be attributed definitively to an author.
 
I'm just surprised such a widely used thought experiment can't be attributed definitively to an author.
1. There are quite a lot of famous works that cannot be attributed definitively to an author.
2. this one can be definitively attributed to an author: Albert Einstein - in two forms.
 
This question was asked before on this thread, the earliest example anyone knew of was the 1909 book The Principle of Relativity, and Non-Newtonian Mechanics by Gilbert Newton Lewis and Richard Chace Tolman, see p. 714 online here.
 
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Thanks JesseM, much appreciated.
 

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