Time taken for pressure to equalise?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the time taken for pressure to equalize inside a hemisphere dome after puncturing a hole, considering the pressure difference between the inside and outside. Participants explore the application of Bernoulli's equation, the behavior of air as an ideal gas, and the interrelated changes in pressure, density, and velocity during the process.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the initial problem of calculating the time for pressure equalization after puncturing a hole in the dome.
  • Another participant argues that Bernoulli's equation may not be applicable due to the non-constant mass flow rate and the compressibility of air, suggesting the use of its differential form instead.
  • A participant questions the relationship between the rate of change of mass and the area and velocity, leading to a correction regarding the expression for mass flow rate.
  • There is a discussion about the changing nature of pressure, density, and velocity during the equalization process, highlighting the complexity of the interrelated quantities involved.
  • Participants suggest using a combination of the differential form of Bernoulli's equation, the rate of change of mass, and the ideal gas law to approach the problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of Bernoulli's equation and the assumptions necessary for solving the problem. There is no consensus on a definitive approach or solution, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the need for assumptions regarding the ideal gas behavior and the neglect of gravitational effects, which may limit the accuracy of their models. The interdependencies of pressure, density, and velocity introduce additional complexity that remains unaddressed.

serverxeon
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I have a hemisphere dome, which volume = \frac{2}{3}∏r3
Inside the dome, pressure is 1atm (assume 1.05 kPa)
Outside the dome, pressure is 0.01atm (10.5 Pa)
I then puncture a 0.2 cm2 (2 x 10-5 m2) hole on the flat side of the dome.

Question: Find time taken for pressure to equalise.

--------------

I have searched up the internet, and seems that I have to use bernoulli. But I have a few problems.
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1) I have no idea what to substitute for the variables.
2) Are the density of air inside and outside the dome different?
3) How should I use calculus (or differential equations, or anything else) to find the time taken, given the process is non-linear in relation.

Thanks
 
Last edited:
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I don't think you can use Bernoulli's equation to solve, as most requirements are not met (dm/dt is not constant, air is not incompressible. You may use its differential form, though:

\frac{dp}{\rho} + d(\frac{v^2}{2}) + g dz = 0

Now you'll have to make a few hypothesis, such as the processes is not turbulent (which it is, however, though it would be almost impossible to accurately describe this phenomenon without this consideration, so your answer will be physically wrong), the air is an ideal gas (or find a good equation of state, though ideal gas law is good).

The specific mass of air in both situations are different, but remember that they must equal when in equilibrium.

The differential equation you will have to solve will be a combination of that differential form of Bernoulli's law and the fact that

\frac{dm}{dt} = V \frac{d\rho}{dt} = Av

Interesting problem, by the way.
 
Thanks for the reply,

But I'll like to clarify, how is rate of change of mass = area * velocity?
\frac{dm}{dt} = V \frac{d\rho}{dt} = Av
 
I'm sorry, that's wrong of course, must've been my distraction. It should be

\frac{dm}{dt} = V\frac{d\rho}{dt} = \rho A v
 
thanks pal,

but I am looking at the equations, and am thinking...
Pressure will change as the process equalise, and density will change as pressure change, so mass in the dome will change too. At the same time velocity changes too... So I have multiple interrelated quantities.. and er...

Can someone please guide me on how should I start?
I'm like just stuck!
 
Last edited:
Yes, everything changes and that's why you use a differential equation to solve this problem.

You will have to work with three equations:

1) Differential form of Bernoulli's
2) Rate of change of mass
3) Ideal gas law

Can you find a equation for velocity using 1) and 3)? Tip: make a few assumptions, one of them is to ignore gravity effects (the dome is too small).
 

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