"Total" destructive interference of plane waves

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of destructive interference of plane waves in the context of a Michelson interferometer. Participants explore the implications of total destructive interference, the nature of plane waves versus beams, and the conservation of energy in such scenarios.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that total destructive interference occurs when two beams have a phase difference of π, leading to darkness without observable interference patterns, raising the question of where the energy goes.
  • Another participant challenges the compatibility of the terms "beam" and "plane wave," indicating that they describe different phenomena and asking for clarification on which is being discussed.
  • A participant notes the relevance of distinguishing between beams and plane waves, expressing interest in both cases.
  • One participant proposes that total destructive interference could theoretically occur if two sources are located at the same point, suggesting that the energy would be dissipated between them rather than simply disappearing.
  • Another participant argues that perfect plane waves, while an abstraction, would lead to total destructive interference everywhere, implying no radiation would occur in such a scenario.
  • A participant mentions that the purpose of the interferometer is to observe changes in interference patterns as the arm lengths vary, indicating that while destructive interference can occur, it does not negate the existence of energy in the system.
  • A link to a paper discussing destructive interference and energy conservation is shared, although one participant admits difficulty with the mathematics involved.
  • Another participant reiterates that while regions of destructive interference exist in beams, a perfectly destructive interference scenario for plane waves would imply no energy anywhere, thus maintaining conservation of energy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of plane waves versus beams, the implications of total destructive interference, and the conservation of energy. No consensus is reached regarding the specifics of energy behavior in these scenarios.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the limitations of definitions and the idealizations involved in discussing plane waves and beams, as well as the complexities of energy conservation in interference phenomena.

angrystudent
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Hello.

Let's suppose that we have a Michelson interferometer to study interference patterns of light. This time we use plane waves.

If we set the whole thing up so that the two separated beams have a phase difference of π when they superpose, destructive interference ensues. Since we're talking about plane waves propagating in the same direction, no interference pattern can be observed: the only output is darkness.

Where does the energy go in such a case?. It looks like electromagnetic energy disappears in the process, but I see no way it could be absorbed or deflected, instead of simply being "destroyed".
 
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You cannot have a beam that is a plane wave. A beam is limited to a small region, a plane wave is not. They are mutually contradictory descriptions. Which one do you want to discuss?
 
Both of those cases sound interesting to me, I didn't even realize that such a distinction could be relevant here.
 
The only way you could contemplate having total destructive interference from two sources in all directions is to have the emitting sources in exactly the same location, dissipating their output power between themselves. At least that answers the question about where the wasted Power would actually be going. IMO, that's better than just saying it can't be done.
I'd bet that the equivalent to this has been observed in RF transmitter systems when virtually nothing has been radiated from the antenna but two transmitters have been getting very hot.
 
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A perfect plane wave will propagate as a plane wave throughout the entire universe, i.e. infinitely wide. 2 perfect plane waves out of phase (and going in the same direction, of course) will be out of phase everywhere and destructively interfere everywhere. So, IMO there will be no radiation at all, anywhere in this case.
Also, BTW, there is no such thing as a perfect plane wave, it is a useful abstraction used to simplify problems.
In your example, it's really ok that the waves destructively interfere when the interferometer arms are certain lengths. The point of the interferometer is to look at how the beam interference changes when the lengths change. If you zoom in on a point on the detector (i.e. plane wave approximation), sometimes it's dark, sometimes it's light. You don't need (or even want) fringes, they are the consequence of the difficulty of building a perfect interferometer with a perfect light source.
 
angrystudent said:
Both of those cases sound interesting to me, I didn't even realize that such a distinction could be relevant here.
So for a beam you will have regions of destructive interference and regions of constructive interference. So it is fairly easy to see that the overall energy is conserved, it is just moved around a bit.

For a plane wave to get perfectly destructive interference everywhere means that you have no energy anywhere. So zero everywhere means no energy which is clearly conserved.
 
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