Traffic violation (Canada)

[DaveC426913]

I just got nipped for $100 for an illegal left turn. I am going to fight it.

Does this kind of offense go against the driver's license or against the plate number?

The officer made a mistake on the plate number. If it goes against the plate number, this offense will simply fall through the cracks.

(That's not my defense, I'm just wondering if I need to bother buildng a defense.)

 

[Evo]

I just got nipped for $100 for an illegal left turn. I am going to fight it.

Does this kind of offense go against the driver's license or against the plate number?

The officer made a mistake on the plate number. If it goes against the plate number, this offense will simply fall through the cracks.

(That's not my defense, I'm just wondering if I need to bother buildng a defense.)

In the US it's the driver's license.

What did you do?

 

[Phyisab****]

Yea what constitutes an illegal left turn?

 

[jtbell]

Obviously, if you turn left in front of a sign that says "No Left Turn"...

 

[rewebster]

I got a ticket one time for an 'illegal right turn' (on a red light when no traffic was coming)---the sign was mixed in with a bunch of other signs on the far side of the intersection which was six lanes (two through and one turn) of traffic away, plus a large median that had diagonal parking in the middle area, plus the diagonal parking near the sidewalk (the sign was about 75 or 100 ft away from me.

I think the sign was for 'newcomers' as a income source.

 

[DaveC426913]

This is an intersection where police are trying to change the behaviour of drivers. It used to be two lanes for the left turn but has been reduced to one. Police are nabbing anyone who continues to turn left from the centre lane.

Problem is, traffic is coming off an off-ramp. Traffic must cross two lanes to get in the correct lane before the intersection. There is only 500 feet to do so.

Today, there is construction blocking the left lane just back from the interection, reducing the distance to 250 feet. The result is that it is physically impossible to get into the left lane until you are almost at the intersection.

The officer saw me trying to squeeze into the left lane at the last moment and assumed I'd raced up the centre lane to make the left turn. He likely did not know about the construction.

 

[MotoH]

fight it. I almost guarantee you the ticketing officer won't show up to the court case and it will be dropped. Most cops have better things to do than to make a ticket stand that they are forced to write.

 

[edward]

This is an intersection where police are trying to change the behaviour of drivers. It used to be two lanes for the left turn but has been reduced to one. Police are nabbing anyone who continues to turn left from the centre lane.

Problem is, traffic is coming off an off-ramp. Traffic must cross two lanes to get in the correct lane before the intersection. There is only 500 feet to do so.

Today, there is construction blocking the left lane just back from the interection, reducing the distance to 250 feet. The result is that it is physically impossible to get into the left lane until you are almost at the intersection.

The officer saw me trying to squeeze into the left lane at the last moment and assumed I'd raced up the centre lane to make the left turn. He likely did not know about the construction.

If you can, go back and take a picture of the intersection and the construction. Then fight it.

 

[edward]

fight it. I almost guarantee you the ticketing officer won't show up to the court case and it will be dropped. Most cops have better things to do than to make a ticket stand that they are forced to write.

They started paying overtime to the cops here for showing up in court

 

[DaveC426913]

I've attached my diagram.

My defense:

I have been ticketed for making an improper left turn. It is my contention that I was in the left turn lane upon reaching the intersection and therefore made a proper left turn.

The officer was unaware of extenuating circumstances out-of-sight of his location that resulted in the delayed lane change. He made an assumption about my intent in that he assumed I’d raced up the centre lane and attempted to get into the left turn only upon seeing him pulling vehicles over.


The intersection is at the corner of Harbour St and Yonge St. Traffic comes down off the Gardiner Expressway Eastbound and must shift over two lanes in order to be able to make the turn from Harbour St. Eastbound to Yonge St. northbound. The distance in which these lane changes must occur is less than one block – 500 feet. At 10:15 AM (the time of the incident), downtown traffic is still bumper-to-bumper, and moving over two lanes is difficult at-best.

I had begun signaling to move into the left lane the moment I got off the highway. I inched forward with traffic, waiting for an opening. I finally got a break shortly before the intersection. From his vantage point, the officer did see me signaling to get into the left turn lane.

What the officer did not see was that further back around the corner the left lane is blocked for most of its length by several Black & MacDonald trucks cordoned off with traffic cones (see pictures). This reduced the possible distance for lane change from 500 feet to about 250 feet. It was physically impossible to get into the left lane until just a few car-lengths before the intersection.

I even have video!

 

[cronxeh]

"lol, Canada" was my first thought. I remember when I did 100+ in Jersey on I-95 going to PA. Got a good deal of tickets, plus the cop was spitting all over the place while he was yelling at me. Long story short, nobody cares about Jersey

 

[edward]

I've attached my diagram.

My defense:



I even have video!

That looks really great. Go for it.

 

[zomgwtf]

Hmph whenever I'm downtown and need to change lanes in a situation like that I push myself into the lane... whoever wants to hit me go ahead. I would fight it though.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

It looks good Dave. I might make a more simple argument but the extra explanation keeps it from being too terse. You may want to avoid making statements of what you believe the officer was thinking as fact but rather summarize his explanation to you for why you received the ticket (assuming he gave one).
Just my opinion. I am not aware of how they treat these things in Canada, so you likely know better than I.

fight it. I almost guarantee you the ticketing officer won't show up to the court case and it will be dropped. Most cops have better things to do than to make a ticket stand that they are forced to write.

Not sure about Canada but like Edward said there are places where they pay officers to show up for court and they even assign court dates to certain days that the officer is supposed to be there for the particular purpose.

Not sure if it works the same way there but here you can refute a ticket by mail and if the DAs office does not respond in a timely manner then the offense is automatically dropped.

 

[GeorginaS]

The only time it goes against the plate and not the driver is when it's a photo ticket.

 

[baywax]

I just got nipped for $100 for an illegal left turn. I am going to fight it.

Does this kind of offense go against the driver's license or against the plate number?

The officer made a mistake on the plate number. If it goes against the plate number, this offense will simply fall through the cracks.

(That's not my defense, I'm just wondering if I need to bother buildng a defense.)

What city was this Dave? If there's a sign that says no left turn between such and such and such and such the cop will win. If the olympic motorcade was within a km you might be in jail without a trial for 10 years. But that's good news when you get out because then you can sue them. Next time have a luge or a bobsled with you and they'll give you money or better yet, a gold medal, for turning left!

Oh yeah... it'll go against the driver license #. But if they're basing their license number on the wrong plate number they will be billing someone else.

 

[Pythagorean]

Yeah, sounds like crappy traffic engineering. That's a solid defense in the US. What's even weirder from my US perspective are that the cops are trying to micro-manage the traffic engineering themselves (which they aren't qualified to do).

 

[DaveC426913]

What city was this Dave? If there's a sign that says no left turn between such and such and such and such the cop will win.

Toronto. And it is a perfectly legal left turn.

In fact, left lane must turn left. See top of picture #2. There is a sign overhead that shows what each lane is supposed to do.

 

[zomgwtf]

Toronto. And it is a perfectly legal left turn.

In fact, left lane must turn left. See top of picture #2. There is a sign overhead that shows what each lane is supposed to do.

You did make an illegal lane change though and the turn would be illegal because you switched lanes too close to an intersection. So I'm not sure exactly how it'll play out, hopefully they will understand the situation and it will work out in your favour.

 

[DaveC426913]

You did make an illegal lane change though and the turn would be illegal because you switched lanes too close to an intersection. So I'm not sure exactly how it'll play out, hopefully they will understand the situation and it will work out in your favour.

That would be true if there weren't construction blocking most of the lane.

Note, BTW, that the offense is not for illegal lane change; it is for an illegal left turn. They are exclusive. If I were making an illegal left turn, it would be because I was, in fact, in the centre lane. Which means I cannot have made any lane change.

 

[zomgwtf]

That would be true if there weren't construction blocking most of the lane.

Note, BTW, that the offense is not for illegal lane change; it is for an illegal left turn. They are exclusive. If I were making an illegal left turn, it would be because I was, in fact, in the centre lane. Which means I cannot have made any lane change.

I understand that but since you made a lane change so close to an intersection in order to make a left hand turn it's an illegal turn I'm pretty sure, regardless of if you were in the left lane at the time of the turn or if you were turning from the centre lane itself.

I understand your situation completely though and I'm confident that you will win your case :tongue: the construction going on in the GTA in general is horrible thanks to Canada's Economic Action Plan. In my area alone (Mississauga) the have built new traffic lights... in 2 different locations. Both locations they built 2 new sets of lights.

Both locations now have 3 sets of lights within I'd say 100m... So that's on average one set of light ever 33m... rediculous. Directly in front of the comlex I live in has been ongoing construction for about 6 months now ripping apart the roads to replace various pipes, understandable... they have like 3 different operations going on on the same stretch of road however at the same time... The road is crazy.

 

[cronxeh]

I don't know about Canada, but having a map with a few things written on it will not get you out of the ticket. Most courts will side with a cop. You got to ask yourself.. is there a reciprocity for a violation from one country to another? For example a traffic ticket in Toronto will show up on your New York license, but won't show up in most other states. A ticket in Quebec it will show up in New York and Maine. You should look up this reciprocity for your own state from state DMV website.

Besides, from the looks of it, you went around all this bumper-to-bumper traffic and merged into their line when you saw an opening? If you did that in front of me I would break your little clown car

 

[zomgwtf]

I don't know about Canada, but having a map with a few things written on it will not get you out of the ticket. Most courts will side with a cop. You got to ask yourself.. is there a reciprocity for a violation from one country to another? For example a traffic ticket in Toronto will show up on your New York license, but won't show up in most other states. A ticket in Quebec it will show up in New York and Maine. You should look up this reciprocity for your own state from state DMV website.

Besides, from the looks of it, you went around all this bumper-to-bumper traffic and merged into their line when you saw an opening? If you did that in front of me I would break your little clown car

Who cares why exactly does that matter at all? As well I don't think you've driven downtown Toronto so I don't think your opinion really matters on daves actions.

Anyways how ELSE are you supposed to merge... when there are cars in the way? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

OH BTW in Canada they are called Provinces, not states, thanks.

 

[cronxeh]

Who cares why exactly does that matter at all? As well I don't think you've driven downtown Toronto so I don't think your opinion really matters on daves actions.

Anyways how ELSE are you supposed to merge... when there are cars in the way? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

OH BTW in Canada they are called Provinces, not states, thanks.

You have an eyesight problem?

 

[DaveC426913]

...I don't think your opinion really matters on daves actions.

If I didn't want opinions I would not have posted in the first place...

 

[DaveC426913]

I don't know about Canada, but having a map with a few things written on it will not get you out of the ticket. Most courts will side with a cop.

Right. Unless the cop was unaware of the mitigating circumstances around the corner preventing drivers from moving into their lane of choice at the earliest opportunity.

That is why I have attached the photos of the lane blockage.

You got to ask yourself.. is there a reciprocity for a violation from one country to another? For example a traffic ticket in Toronto will show up on your New York license, but won't show up in most other states. A ticket in Quebec it will show up in New York and Maine. You should look up this reciprocity for your own state from state DMV website.

My own state is Ontario...

Besides, from the looks of it, you went around all this bumper-to-bumper traffic and merged into their line when you saw an opening? If you did that in front of me I would break your little clown car

No. I did not zoom up the centre lane. I inched up the centre lane, along with all the other traffic in the centre lane, and I was signalling all the way. Just before the intersection was the first time I got a break.

 

[cronxeh]

No. I did not zoom up the centre lane. I inched up the centre lane, along with all the other traffic in the centre lane, and I was signalling all the way. Just before the intersection was the first time I got a break.

Ok. However, from cop's vantage point, he will say that you were in the center lane and he observed you make a left turn cutting off traffic in the left lane. He does not need any proof. He will tell the judge what kind of weather it was, visibility conditions, and that he had an unobstructed view of your vehicle and never lost continuity of observation.

I did not know you lived in Canada, I thought you were a US resident who got a ticket in Canada. If that was the case I would've advised you to ignore it if it wasnt going to show up on your record.

Oh and another thing.. did the left lane have a solid white line or double line between left and center lanes? If so you can't cross that lane legally

 

[baywax]

Dave, no idea about Toronto. Notoriously flat. No olympic motorcades to worry about. I'd say the fact of the sign is your best defense.

 

[Evo]

Dave, I can't believe that you got a ticket for merging into the turn lane. Is there a law that says at what point before a turn you can no longer legally change lanes?

 

[Norman.Galois]

I learned to ask for court services in French. I have that right. They drop the fine just about everytime.

 

[Norman.Galois]

Yeah, sounds like crappy traffic engineering. That's a solid defense in the US. What's even weirder from my US perspective are that the cops are trying to micro-manage the traffic engineering themselves (which they aren't qualified to do).

Ontario has the best setup for highways and roads. In all the places I've been, the US probably has the worse. Meaning New York State, Michigan State, and Pennsylvania. You can miss an exit, you're screw and lost lots of time. In Ontario, all exits are made to go on and off easily. Of course, if contruction is going on, not much you can do.

 

[DaveC426913]

Ok. However, from cop's vantage point, he will say that you were in the center lane and he observed you make a left turn cutting off traffic in the left lane. He does not need any proof. He will tell the judge what kind of weather it was, visibility conditions, and that he had an unobstructed view of your vehicle and never lost continuity of observation.

Yes. I am not refuting anything about the officer's account. That's the beauty of my defense. What he saw is God's truth.

But he did not account for mitigating circumstances.

Oh and another thing.. did the left lane have a solid white line or double line between left and center lanes? If so you can't cross that lane legally

Yes. The solid white line is marked on my diagram.

My defense is that the construction is a game-changer.

 

[Pyrrhus]

As a Transportation engineer, I agree with Dave. The cop shouldn't have given him a ticket.

Good luck Dave!

 

[DaveC426913]

Update:

Lodged my plea of not guilty. I will hear from them some time in the next six months.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Right. Nothing is your fault. This cop is just confused and misguided and the world is out to get you.

Police officers are not infallible and they do have occasion to give tickets that are not warranted. That is the reason why there is a means to fight them. ;-)