Trapezoidal rule to estimate arc length error

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around estimating the arc length using the trapezoidal rule, specifically focusing on the integral $$L=\int_1^5 \sqrt{1+(\frac{1}{x^2})}dx$$ and its correct formulation. Participants are examining the appropriate integrand and the application of the trapezoidal error formula.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to clarify the correct form of the integrand for the arc length calculation and discussing the implications of the second derivative in the context of the trapezoidal error formula. Questions arise regarding the proper differentiation of the function involved.

Discussion Status

There is an ongoing exploration of the correct integrand and the necessary steps to compute the second derivative. Some participants have provided guidance on how to find the maximum value of the second derivative, while others express concerns about the complexity of evaluating the resulting function.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating potential errors in the formulation of the integrand and the implications for the trapezoidal rule. There is a recognition of the challenge posed by the complexity of the second derivative when preparing for potential exam questions.

Zack K
Messages
166
Reaction score
6
Homework Statement
State the integral (do NOT evaluate) to compute the arc length between x = 1 and x = 5 for the function ##y=\frac{1}{x^2}## (already done)

How many intervals are required to numerically compute the integral in to an accuracy of ##10^{-3}## using the trapezoidal rule?
Relevant Equations
##L=\int_a^b \sqrt{1+(\frac{dy}{dx})^2}dx##

##E_T\leq\frac{(b-a)^3}{12n^2}[max |f^{(2)}(x)|]##
I got the first part of it down, $$L=\int_1^5 \sqrt{1+(\frac{1}{x^2})}dx$$

I just want to know if it's right to make your ##f(x)=\sqrt{1+\frac{1}{x^2}}## then compute it's second derivative and find it's max value, for the trapezoidal error formula.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Zack K said:
I got the first part of it down, $$L=\int_1^5 \sqrt{1+(\frac{1}{x^4})}dx$$
Your integrand isn't right. What is ##\frac d{dx}\frac 1 {x^2}##? In your integrand above, it looks like you just squared ##\frac 1 {x^2}##, and forgot to find its derivative.
Zack K said:
I just want to know if it's right to make your ##f(x)=\sqrt{1+\frac{1}{x^4}}## then compute it's second derivative and find it's max value, for the trapezoidal error formula.
 
Mark44 said:
Your integrand isn't right. What is ##\frac d{dx}\frac 1 {x^2}##? In your integrand above, it looks like you just squared ##\frac 1 {x^2}##, and forgot to find its derivative.
Yes sorry I realized that then fixed it.
 
Zack K said:
Yes sorry I realized that then fixed it.
It's still wrong. You need to find the derivative of 1/x^2, square it, and add 1. That will go inside the radical for your arc length integrand.
 
Mark44 said:
It's still wrong. You need to find the derivative of 1/x^2, square it, and add 1. That will go inside the radical for your arc length integrand.
Sigh... now I was thinking of integration.

It should be ##\sqrt{1+\frac{4}{x^6}}=\sqrt{\frac{x^6+4}{x^6}}##
 
Zack K said:
It should be ##\sqrt{1+\frac{4}{x^6}}=\sqrt{\frac{x^6+4}{x^6}}##
That's more like it.

Zack K said:
##E_T\leq\frac{(b-a)^3}{12n^2}[max |f^{(2)}(x)|]##
After you get the integral squared away, there are some tricks you can use to find the max of |f2(x)|. If the function (f2(x)) is increasing on an interval [a, b], its largest value will be at x = b. If the function is decreasing, it's largest value will be at the left endpoint of the interval, x = a.
 
  • Informative
Likes   Reactions: Zack K
Mark44 said:
That's more like it.After you get the integral squared away, there are some tricks you can use to find the max of |f2(x)|. If the function (f2(x)) is increasing on an interval [a, b], its largest value will be at x = b. If the function is decreasing, it's largest value will be at the left endpoint of the interval, x = a.
Wow that actually makes so much sense. My biggest issue is once I got the second derivative, I got this large function which seemed annoying to evaluate with x=5 (given that this question could be on an exam). Thank you.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
1K