Two Masses on a Massed Pulley and a variation

AI Thread Summary
The discussion revolves around solving a physics problem involving two masses on a massed pulley system and a variation with a rolling sphere. The user initially struggles with deriving the correct equations for linear and angular acceleration, as well as tension in the system. After several attempts and incorrect results, it is highlighted that the sign convention for acceleration must be consistent to avoid errors in calculations. Ultimately, the correct formula for linear acceleration is established as a function of the masses and gravitational acceleration. The user plans to apply the same corrected approach to the variation problem involving the sphere.
Esragoria
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
1a. Homework Statement
Hi all, I'm having quite a bit of problem on a physics question. I've seen some examples of this problem, but when I follow the suggestions and equations out, the answer I get back is wrong...

Anyways, here's the problem:
Given two masses (m_1,~m_2) hanging from opposite sides of a solid disk-shaped pulley of known mass and radius (m_3,~R) from a massless string, determine linear acceleration, angular acceleration of the pulley, the tension between the pulley and each of the two hanging masses and a few other things that I think I can work out on my own. I've attached a picture for reference.

I'd like to figure out how to solve this generally, but if it helps here are the masses and radii:m_1 = 3.6\text{ kg} m_2 = 1.7 \text{ kg} m_3 =2.2 \text{ kg} R = 0.15 \text{ m}

1b.
The variation replaces one of the masses with a sphere rolling without sliding on a flat surface. I've included a picture of this problem as reference. For this problem we are given the mass and radius of the sphere (m_s,~r_s), the mass and radius of the solid disk-shaped pulley (m_d,~r_d), and the mass and the radius of the hoop (which I have been treating as just a point mass because it appears to have no rotation) (m_h,~r_h).

Again, I'd like to figure this out generally, but here are the values given: $$m_s=3.2\text{ kg},~r_s=0.2\text{ m}$$ $$m_d=1.8\text{ kg},~r_d=0.09\text{ m}$$ $$m_h=2.4\text{ kg},~r_h=0.15\text{ m}$$

Homework Equations


The equations I'm working with for 1a are: $$\vec{\tau}=\vec{R} \times \vec{F}= RT = I \alpha $$ $$a=R \alpha$$ $$I_\text{disk}= \frac{1}{2}mR^2$$
For 1b I'm also using: $$I_s= \frac{2}{5}mR^2$$


The Attempt at a Solution


Assuming downward acceleration to be negative:
##F_\text{net},_1 = m_1 a = T_1 - m_1 g ## resulting in a negative acceleration for ##m_1##​
##F_\text{net},_2 = m_2 a = T_2 - m_2 g ## resulting in a positive acceleration for ##m_2##​
Solving both for tension, I get: $$T_1=m_1a+m_1g$$ and $$T_2=m_2a+m_2g$$
Additionally I have: $$\tau_\text{net}=I \alpha = RT_\text{net} = RT_1 - RT_2$$
Substituting in ##T_1 ,~ T_2,~\alpha=\frac{a}{R},~I_\text{disk}=\frac{1}{2}m_3 R^2 ##: $$\frac{1}{2}m_3 R^2 (\frac{a}{R}) = Rm_1 a + Rm_1 g - Rm_2 g - Rm_2 a$$
Simplifying out: $$a = 2g \frac{m_1 - m_2}{2m_2+m_3 - 2m_1}$$
and this is where I'm stuck. When I plug the numbers in, the online answer program is saying I'm wrong. I also simplified out using ##m_2 a=m_2g -T_2## resulting in: $$a = 2g \frac{m_1 - m_2}{m_3-2m_2 - 2m_1}$$ and ##T_1=m_1g-m_1a## resulting in: $$a = 2g \frac{m_1 - m_2}{m_3-2m_2 + 2m_1}$$ and these were both wrong

For 1b, I did essentially the same thing, except making down positive: $$\tau_s=I_s\alpha$$ $$\tau_h=R_dT_h$$ $$T_h=m_ha+m_h$$ $$\tau_\text{net}=\tau_s-\tau_h$$ Simplifying and substituting, I get: $$a=\frac{r_dm_hg}{\frac{2}{5}m_sr_s-r_d(m_h-\frac{m_d}{2})}$$ which is wrong.

Help would be appreciated!
 

Attachments

  • Screen shot 2012-11-05 at 8.04.41 PM.png
    Screen shot 2012-11-05 at 8.04.41 PM.png
    1.9 KB · Views: 488
  • Screen shot 2012-11-05 at 9.29.30 PM.png
    Screen shot 2012-11-05 at 9.29.30 PM.png
    1.2 KB · Views: 490
Physics news on Phys.org
Esragoria said:
##F_\text{net},_1 = m_1 a = T_1 - m_1 g ## resulting in a negative acceleration for ##m_1##​
##F_\text{net},_2 = m_2 a = T_2 - m_2 g ## resulting in a positive acceleration for ##m_2##​
These two accelerations mean different things. Either give them separate names or (easier) change the sign of one so that they refer to the same thing. It has led you to get the wrong sign on a term in your answer. I think the rest of the working is OK.
 
Herp derp, I can't add. Just reworked it using the right signs and it ended up right. Thanks.
Ended up with $$a=2g\frac{m_1-m_2}{2m_1+2m_2+m_3}$$
I'll try doing the right math with the variation problem.
 
Thread 'Collision of a bullet on a rod-string system: query'
In this question, I have a question. I am NOT trying to solve it, but it is just a conceptual question. Consider the point on the rod, which connects the string and the rod. My question: just before and after the collision, is ANGULAR momentum CONSERVED about this point? Lets call the point which connects the string and rod as P. Why am I asking this? : it is clear from the scenario that the point of concern, which connects the string and the rod, moves in a circular path due to the string...
Back
Top