Two objects attached by pulleys

[sona1177]

Homework Statement

There are two objects attached by a pulled on a cline. please click the link to see the diagram.

http://session.masteringphysics.com/problemAsset/1010976/24/MLD_2l_2_v2_2_a.jpg

if m2 weighed 2 kg and m1 weight 6 kg, which direction does the static friction point for m2? Does it point up and to the left or down and to the right. I said down and to the right because without friction, the pulley would pull it up, so since static friction points in the direction the object would move if there were no friction, then it would be down and to the right. I am so confused. someone help. I can figure the whole problem i have here but i just don't know which direction the static friction points which messes up my freebody diagram, which in turn messes up the signs in the equations, which in turn messes up the answer. Please help!

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution

 

[hikaru1221]

Your reasoning is okay. What if the static friction points up and to the left?

 

[sona1177]

Your reasoning is okay. What if the static friction points up and to the left?

Then wouldn't the object just move? But is my answer correct, that the object moves down and to the right? Please don't mess with my mind! :) This concept was messing with my head for 3 hours before i chose to come here.

 

[hikaru1221]

If the friction "helps" the object move, is it "friction" anymore?
You're correct. I just ask some more to bolster your confidence. Hope this help

 

[sona1177]

If the friction "helps" the object move, is it "friction" anymore?
You're correct. I just ask some more to bolster your confidence. Hope this help

Thank you! Right, I said the object would just move if static friction acted up and to the left. so its not friction anymore :) Thanks again.

 

[hikaru1221]

Uhm... I'm not sure if you got what I meant or not. Okay, make it a bit harder
What if m1=2kg and m2=6kg?

 

[sona1177]

In this case, m2=6 and m1=2, static friction points up and to the left because without friction, the pulley would pull it down and to the right.

 

[hikaru1221]

You correctly pointed out one case but you missed a case . In the extreme scenario when the plane is horizontal, m2 is pulled to the left and thus, friction points to the right, correct? The angle between the plane and the horizontal direction must be taken into account. If m2=2.001kg which is very close to m1, you can get the image of this situation, can't you?

The main point I'm trying to point out is that when m2 seems to move to the left, friction acts to the right, and when m2 seems to move to the right, friction acts to the left. That's why I asked "If the friction "helps" the object move, is it "friction" anymore?". When the mass tends to move in some direction, friction always acts in the opposite direction. This might be helpful to you in more complicated problems. But if you find it totally a mess, then forget it; you may come up with it some day