Understanding Hawking Radiation: Energy Subtracted from Black Holes

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of Hawking Radiation, specifically focusing on how energy is subtracted from black holes through the interaction of virtual particles at the event horizon. Participants explore the implications of particle-antiparticle pairs and the nature of negative energy in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the mechanism by which energy is removed from a black hole, particularly regarding the interaction of virtual particles at the event horizon.
  • Another participant suggests that the standard explanation of negative energy particles reducing the mass of the black hole is widely accepted but expresses skepticism about the validity of the virtual particle analogy.
  • A participant seeks clarification on the physical process involved when a particle with negative energy interacts with a black hole, emphasizing the need for a deeper understanding beyond just the concept of energy removal.
  • One participant attempts to clarify that the removal of mass from a black hole is an effect of Hawking Radiation, though acknowledges the complexity of articulating this process accurately.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of the virtual particle explanation and the nature of negative energy. There is no consensus on the physical processes involved or the implications for black hole mass reduction.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the analogy of virtual particles and the implications of negative energy, indicating a need for more rigorous mathematical descriptions. The discussion remains open-ended with unresolved questions about the underlying physics.

jaydnul
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Something I don't understand is how the energy is subtracted from the black hole. So let's say one pair of virtual particles pop up on the event horizon, the particle goes in, the antiparticle goes out. Then let's say that a second pair does the opposite.

My first question is why is the antiparticle from the first pair colliding with the particle from the second pair any different than colliding with its original partner? Has it just had enough time to become a real particle and therefore emits a photon to conserve energy?

If so, wouldn't the two particles colliding inside the event horizon give off light as well? How is the energy removed from the black hole?
 
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I find this very weird myself. The standard "explanation" I have heard several times on this forum is that it doesn't matter which particle falls in, it automatically has negative energy and thus reduces the mass of the black hole.

More significantly, the whole issue of "virtual particles" as the mechanism for Hawking Radiation is bogus. Hawking said that this "particle pair" thing is JUST an analogy that was the closest he could come to describing in English something that really can only be described in the math.

As to another part of your post, anything that happens inside the event horizon is irrelevant to the rest of the universe and does not cause any loss of mass to the black hole.
 
But what is the physical process. What does a particle with negative energy actually do to the black hole (other than just saying it takes away energy)?
 
Jd0g33 said:
But what is the physical process. What does a particle with negative energy actually do to the black hole (other than just saying it takes away energy)?
Taking away energy is equivalent to taking away mass and that is what Hawking Radiation IS ... the removal of mass from a BH.

EDIT: I think I stated that a bit awkwardly. Taking away mass from a BH is the EFFECT of HR, not quite "what it is" as I said originally).
 
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