Units of length and time in MeV?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conversion of length measured in MeV-1 to SI units, particularly in the context of high-energy physics. Participants explore the relationships between energy, mass, length, and time, and the implications of using different unit systems.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about the process of converting length in MeV-1 to SI units, questioning where such measurements are commonly used.
  • Several participants note that in high-energy physics, the conversion factor is 1 MeV-1 = 197 fm (femtometers), with one participant recalling this conversion after being reminded.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of setting constants such as c and hbar to 1 in certain unit systems, leading to a simplified relationship between energy and length.
  • One participant suggests a method for conversion using fundamental constants, proposing that hbar * c can be used to derive the length unit in terms of energy units.
  • Another participant mentions the availability of online calculators that can perform these conversions automatically, providing examples of inputs and expected outputs.
  • A participant attempts to clarify the conversion process by drawing parallels to other unit conversions, emphasizing the role of constants in the calculations.
  • There is a humorous remark about the potential for creating arbitrary units, illustrating the flexibility of unit systems.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the conversion factor between MeV-1 and femtometers, but there are varying levels of understanding regarding the underlying principles and methods of conversion. The discussion remains somewhat unresolved as participants express different levels of clarity and confidence in the conversion process.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the definitions and relationships between the constants involved in the conversion, and there are unresolved aspects regarding the mathematical steps necessary for deriving the conversion factor.

philip041
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How do you convert a length which has been given in MeV ^-1 to SI units?

Energy is mass length^2/time^2 so I guess it;s easy to make the steps of energy - mass - momentum etc... What about length and time?

Cheers
 
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philip041 said:
How do you convert a length which has been given in MeV ^-1 to SI units?
Where have you seen length measured in such units?
 
Length in MeV^-1 is used in high energy physics.
The conversion is 1=197 MeV-fm.
 
From what I remember of this stuff, the units are such that
c = 1
hbar = 1
Energy units are MeV​
 
clem said:
Length in MeV^-1 is used in high energy physics.
The conversion is 1=197 MeV-fm.
D'oh! That totally slipped my mind. (Thanks guys.)
 
So if you multiply (100 MeV)^-1 by hbar*c and then divide by 197 x10^-12??
 
1 (MeV)^-1 = 197 fm = 197 x 10^-15 m.
 
So you have said hbar*c=1?

Sorry, I'm lost!
 
As this is a rather advanced topic, and the OP has made an attempt at wrapping his brain around what's going on, I'll take a stab at setting things up.

In any system of units, we can write
hbar * c = (a number) * (energy unit) * (length unit)​

where
(a number) = just that, some number
(energy unit) = the energy unit of interest
(length unit) = the length unit of interest

Specifically, in the high-energy physics systems of units, we have
(a number) = 1, since we have hbar=c=1 by definition
(energy unit) = MeV
(length unit) = unknown, to be solved for​

The value of hbar*c (or any physical constant for that matter) must be independent of the system of units being used. Therefore
hbar*c = (1.05e-34 J*s) * (3.00e8 m/s) = (energy unit) * (length unit)​
Since we know (energy unit) = 1 MeV, the above equation can be solved for (length unit).

EDIT:
Moreover, that length unit (conveniently expressed in SI units of fm) would be expressed as 1 MeV-1 in the high-energy units system, since
hbar * c = 1,​
by definition, in those units.
 
  • #10
philip041 said:
How do you convert a length which has been given in MeV ^-1 to SI units?

Google has a calculator that knows units like eV and automatically puts the answers in SI.

So the quickest way for you is just to use that online calculator and convert it directly.

You just go to Google as if you were going to do a search, and you type some expression into the ordinary Google box and press return.

For example suppose you type this into the box:
hbar*c/eV

The calculator knows what hbar is, and what c is. So it will compute that and tell you
"197.3 nanometers"

Or if you put this in:

2.0 hbar*c/MeV

then it will tell you "3.9 x 10-13 meters".
 
  • #11
Cheers I think I have it now!
 
  • #12
If you want, you can view it just as a unit conversion.

For example, when you have 10 feet and want to convert it to meters, you multiply by some fixed constant K = 0.3048 meters / foot, to get
10 foot x 0.3048 (meters / foot) = 3.048 meters

When you have 197.3 nanometers (197.3 x 10^(-9) meter) you have to multiply by some other constant K'. We can make K' out of the fundamental constants c and hbar which occur in high-energy physics, by playing around with the units. We note that K' has to have units of energy / meter. Since hbar has units of energy * time and c has units of length / time, we easily see that we need to take K' = hbar c which gives a numerical value of K' = 1.973... × 10^(-16) GeV * meter. Then to express 197.3 nm in energy units, you just compute
\frac{197.3 \times 10^{-9} \text{ meter}}{1.973\cdots \text{ GeV meter}} = 10^{-9} \text{ GeV}
(= 1 eV).

The reason that all of this is actually useful, is for example that we have Einstein's special theory of relativity, which says that it actually makes sense to compare energy and mass.

However, if you are mentally disturbed you could make up new constants, like
p = 1237659,312398 GeV / quack
and express energy, time and length in terms of quacks.
 

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