Very long solenoid ampere law paradox?

AI Thread Summary
The discussion explores the implications of Ampere's Law in a thought experiment involving a long solenoid with a steady current, first in a vacuum and then with materials of different magnetic permeabilities inserted. It highlights that while the magnetic field (B) remains continuous across boundaries, the magnetic field intensity (H) changes due to differing permeabilities. This leads to a potential paradox when applying Ampere's Law, as the enclosed current remains constant despite the changes in H. The conversation also touches on the concept of magnetic poles forming at the interface of different materials, affecting the behavior of the H field. The findings are relevant for solving transformer problems, particularly those involving air gaps.
reaper929
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Hello

I have been doing some thinking related to Ampere law and behaviour of magnetic field inside materials of different permeability. In the process, I came up with the following thought experiment:

Try imagining a very long solenoid with steady current I. Turns of the solenoid are circular. The magnetic field generated by the solenoid is something like the one that is shown in this picture:

http://www.siemon.com/uk/white_papers/images/06-05-01-magnets5.gif

Let us assume that the solenoid is in vacuum. We expect an uniform B/H field inside. Where, B and H are related by: B=μ0H

H can be easily calculated as the function of number of turns, length of the coil and the amount of current.

If we take an amperian loop that coincides with one of the lines of force shown in the previous picture, for example, the uppermost, we should obtain a nonzero circulation of the H field which should be equal to the total current enclosed by the loop.

In the second experiment, we do almost everything the same, expect that the coil isn't in vacuum. We insert 2 materials of different magnetic permeability inside the coil so that they have a sharp and well defined boundary.

It goes something like this:

AIR-MATERIAL1-MATERIAL2-AIR

If we take boundary conditions for B/H fields, we obtain that the normal component of B should be continuous and tangetial component is nonexistent. So, it seems that the B vector goes unchanged. Which means that H vector is different in different materials. It is equal to B divided by the permeability of the material.

If we take the same amperian loop, we should now obtain a different result. But the sum of enclosed currents hasn't changed.

Is that a paradox or I'm missing something obvious?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
In the pole model of magnetism, magnetic poles form at the magnetic material/air interface. It is at this point that the ## H ## field undergoes a discontinuous change, even though the ## B ## is continuous across these poles. The ## H ## field from these poles is conservative, so that ## \oint H \cdot dl=0 ## for the ## H ## of the poles. The result is ## \oint H \cdot dl=NI ##, basically the MMF equation for transformers. This result is particularly useful in solving transformer problems, especially those with an air gap. See also: https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...ly-the-biot-savart.927681/page-3#post-5996404
 
Thread 'Motional EMF in Faraday disc, co-rotating magnet axial mean flux'
So here is the motional EMF formula. Now I understand the standard Faraday paradox that an axis symmetric field source (like a speaker motor ring magnet) has a magnetic field that is frame invariant under rotation around axis of symmetry. The field is static whether you rotate the magnet or not. So far so good. What puzzles me is this , there is a term average magnetic flux or "azimuthal mean" , this term describes the average magnetic field through the area swept by the rotating Faraday...
Back
Top