Water electrolysis, work done, and volume change

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on the process of water electrolysis, specifically examining the work done on and by the system, the change in volume as gas expands, and the effects of temperature changes within a closed container. Participants explore theoretical calculations related to electrolysis, gas production, and thermodynamic principles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about calculating the final temperature of the system using the specific heat capacity formula and asks how to determine the change in volume as gas expands during electrolysis.
  • Another participant questions whether pressure or volume is kept constant in the system, seeking clarification on the implications for calculations.
  • There is a discussion about the ideal gas law and whether the internal pressure will increase if the temperature rises, with some suggesting that if the pressure is equilibrated with the external pressure, it will not increase.
  • A participant provides a detailed calculation of gas produced during electrolysis and the resulting temperature change, raising the question of whether this temperature rise leads to an increase in total volume and how to calculate that change using Charles's law.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the implications of temperature changes on pressure and volume within the closed system. There are multiple viewpoints regarding the application of the ideal gas law and Charles's law in this context.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the assumptions regarding constant pressure and volume, as well as the mathematical steps involved in applying gas laws to the scenario presented.

HelloCthulhu
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I'm trying to learn more about water electrolysis and the work done on and by the system, but I'm still very confused about a few elements. Knowing the volume of the closed container, the number of moles of water, the amps/volts from the battery, and the initial temperature of the water, I know I can calculate the final temperature of the system using the specific heat capacity formula:

Q=c x m x ΔT

I can also use Faraday's law of electrolysis to solve for gas produced. Assuming the external pressure is standard in a closed system, how can I calculate the change in volume as the gas expands?
 
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HelloCthulhu said:
Knowing the volume of the closed container

HelloCthulhu said:
the external pressure is standard in a closed system

So what is kept constant - pressure, or volume?
 
Borek said:
So what is kept constant - pressure, or volume?

The external pressure is constant. Using the ideal gas law, does this mean I can just divide nRT by standard P now?

Actually, I'm very confused. If the temperature increases inside of the container, won't the pressure inside of the container increase too?
 
Last edited:
HelloCthulhu said:
The external pressure is constant. Using the ideal gas law, does this mean I can just divide nRT by standard P now?

So the volume of the container changes,. No problem, you just need to be precise.

Actually, I'm very confused. If the temperature increases inside of the container, won't the pressure inside of the container increase too?

If the pressure is equilibrated with the outside pressure, then no.
 
Let's say 2 moles of water at 20°C undergoes electrolysis at 5A/40V inside of a closed 40mL container for 1 min at standard external/internal pressure. I'll calculate the total temperature of the system first.

Gas Produced
(5A*60s*4g)/(F*4)=0.00311g H2
(5A*60s*32g)/(F*4)=0.024875g O2
0.00311g + 0.024875g = 0.02798g

Temperature of the system
Q=cmΔT
5A*40V*60s=12kJ
Liquid 36g x 4.18J/(g⋅K)=150.48J/(g⋅K)
Gas 0.02798g x 2.080J/(g⋅K)=0.0582J/(g⋅K)
150.48J/(g⋅K) + 0.0582J/(g⋅K)=150.538J/(g⋅K)
12kJ=150.538J/(g⋅K)/(g⋅K)*ΔT
12kJ/150.538J/(g⋅K)=(T2-20°C)
79.7 + 20°C=99.7°C

Does the rise in temperature cause the total volume of the system to increase? If so, how do I calculate the change in volume? I think I'm supposed to use the volume of the container as initial volume and use Charle's law to calculate the change but I'm not sure in this case.

Vi/Ti = Vf/Tf

0.040L/293K=Vf/372.85
Vf=0.05L
 

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