What are the foci of an ellipse?

  • Context: High School 
  • Thread starter Thread starter avito009
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Ellipse
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of the foci of an ellipse, exploring its definition, geometric representation, and implications in drawing ellipses. Participants engage in clarifying the properties of foci and how they relate to the shape of an ellipse, using practical examples and analogies.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant defines the foci of an ellipse as the locus of points where the sum of distances to each focus is constant, seeking a simpler explanation.
  • Another participant describes a method to draw an ellipse using thumb tacks and string, illustrating how the foci control the shape of the ellipse.
  • A participant questions the constancy of the sum of distances when changing the tension of the string while drawing the ellipse, suggesting that points not on the foci would yield varying sums.
  • Another participant reiterates the previous point about the sum of distances remaining constant for points on the ellipse, while also noting that moving the thumbtacks alters the foci and thus the ellipse itself.
  • One participant critiques a previous definition, arguing that it incorrectly implies that "the foci" is the locus of points.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of keeping the string taut while drawing, noting the geometric relationship between the pencil, thumb tacks, and the triangle formed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definition of foci and the implications of drawing ellipses, with some clarifying and refining earlier statements. There is no consensus on the initial definition provided, as one participant challenges its accuracy.

Contextual Notes

Some statements made by participants contain assumptions that may not be universally accepted, such as the interpretation of the foci and the implications of the string method for drawing ellipses. The discussion includes varying levels of clarity and precision in the definitions used.

avito009
Messages
184
Reaction score
4
What is a foci of an ellipse?

The foci, an ellipse is the locus of points such that the sum of the distance to each focus is constant.

Can someone explain this in simple terms?
 
Mathematics news on Phys.org
One way to look at it is how you might draw an ellipse using a pencil, paper, two thumb tacks and a loop of string.

Placing the thumb tacks in the middle of the paper some small distance apart, say 2 inches and then wrapping the string around both thumb tacks and the pencil to create a triangle. Now move the pencil clockwise around keeping the string taut to create an ellipse. From this you can see that the two thumb tacks control the shape of the ellipse. They are in fact at the foci of the ellipse.

Here's another related way to draw it:

http://www.mathopenref.com/printellipse1.html
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: mfb and Nidum
So you mean that suppose I take the same thumb tacks but I pull the string with a bit lesser force and draw the ellipse. Now I pull the string till as much as it can stretch and then draw an ellipse. Now in the first case if the sum of distances of all the points is 12. In the latter case when i pull the string hard also the sum of all the distances will be 12. Am I right? But for a point that is not the focus the sum of distances will vary when the shape changes. Am I right?
 
avito009 said:
So you mean that suppose I take the same thumb tacks but I pull the string with a bit lesser force. Now I pull the string till as much as it can stretch. Now in the first case if the sum of distances of all the points is 12. In the latter case when i pull the string hard also the sum of all the distances will be 12. Am I right? But for a point that is not the focus the sum of distances will vary when the shape changes. Am I right?
The idea with the string is that you pull it so that it is taut.
Here is a picture of what jedishrfu is talking about. The foci (plural of focus) are at F1and F2 and P is an arbitrary point on the ellipse. For an ellipse, the sum of the lengths of the segments F1P and PF2 is a constant. As we move around the ellipse to the right, the segment F1P gets longer and the segement PF2 gets shorter, but the sum F1P + PF2 remains the same.

If you move one or both of the thumbtacks, which changes the location of the foci, you get a different ellipse.
Ellipse.png
 
avito009 said:
What is a foci of an ellipse?

The foci, an ellipse is the locus of points such that the sum of the distance to each focus is constant.
Your sentence above is very confused, as it implies that "the foci" is the locus of some points. That's not true.
 
You hold the string taut and the string does not stretch then the pencil will draw the ellipse correctly. Notice at each point on the ellipse, the string makes a triangle with corners being the pencil point and the two thumb tacks, and for each of these triangles the triangle perimeter is always the same length.
 
Mark44 said:
The idea with the string is that you pull it so that it is taut.
Here is a picture of what jedishrfu is talking about. The foci (plural of focus) are at F1and F2 and P is an arbitrary point on the ellipse. For an ellipse, the sum of the lengths of the segments F1P and PF2 is a constant. As we move around the ellipse to the right, the segment F1P gets longer and the segement PF2 gets shorter, but the sum F1P + PF2 remains the same.

If you move one or both of the thumbtacks, which changes the location of the foci, you get a different ellipse.

Thanks a lot. That is as simple as it can get. I get the point.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K