What Are the Odds of a Perfect Machine? Perpetual Motion Possibilities

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the feasibility of creating a machine with 100% efficiency or close to it, particularly focusing on the concept of perpetual motion machines (PMMs). Participants explore theoretical possibilities, the implications of efficiency in machines, and the fundamental laws of physics that govern these concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the odds of developing a highly efficient machine and invites thoughts on the principles that could enable such a machine, including perpetual motion.
  • Some participants assert that perpetual motion machines are impossible as they violate the laws of physics.
  • Another participant elaborates on the specific laws of thermodynamics and other physical principles that PMMs would violate, mentioning Newton's laws, Ohm's law, Archimedes' principle, and Lenz's law.
  • There is a mention of electric heaters being 100% efficient and energy harvesting devices achieving coefficients of performance greater than 1:1, which some participants might interpret as a form of efficiency.
  • A participant notes that discussions about PMMs are banned topics on the forum, referencing the community guidelines and providing links to external resources for further reading.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that perpetual motion machines are impossible due to violations of physical laws, but there is ongoing discussion about the implications of efficiency in other types of machines.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes references to specific laws of physics and community guidelines regarding banned topics, indicating limitations in the scope of acceptable discourse on perpetual motion machines.

Ethan_Tab
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What are the odds that humans will come up with a 100% (or extremely close to) efficient machine within the next couple centuries. If so, what principle do you think it would work on? How about a perpetual motion machine?

Share your thoughts.
 
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Perpetual motion machines would violate the laws of physics and are thus completely impossible. They will never happen.

However many electric heaters are exactly 100% efficient and energy harvesting devices can have coefficients of performance of well above 1:1.
 
russ_watters said:
Perpetual motion machines would violate the laws of physics and are thus completely impossible. They will never happen.

In what ways would a perpetual machine violate the laws of physics?
 
Ethan_Tab said:
In what ways would a perpetual machine violate the laws of physics?
The three laws of thermodynamics describe the general problems (and the PMM wiki describes the associated violations) and many claimed PMMS are not well enough developed to take further. But for ones that are, the violations can be anything. Common ones include Newton's laws of motion, Ohms law Archemede's principle and Lentz's law.
 
Ethan_Tab said:
In what ways would a perpetual machine violate the laws of physics?

PMMs are on the Banned Topics list in the PF Rules (see Info at the top of the page). We list some website that are good resources for your further reading outside of the PF.

micromass said:
Banned Topics -- Pseudoscience, such as (but not limited to):

Perpetual motion and "free energy" discussions
http://wiki.4hv.org/index.php/Free_Energy_Debunking
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion
http://www.skepdic.com/freeenergy.html
http://www.skepdic.com/perpetual.html
 

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