What exactly is a threshold frequency?

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    Frequency Threshold
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of threshold frequency in the context of photon interactions with electrons and other particles. Participants explore the nature of these interactions, the conditions under which they occur, and whether a threshold frequency applies universally across different types of interactions, including those involving protons and molecules.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the interaction mechanism between a photon and a bound electron, particularly when the photon's energy meets or exceeds the work function.
  • Another participant asserts that physics cannot fundamentally explain "how" interactions occur, but rather describes them through equations.
  • There is a discussion about the energy requirements for an electron interacting with a proton, with some noting that energy conservation and the strong force play significant roles.
  • Participants explore whether a photon can interact with a molecule as a whole or only with its distinct components, concluding that both scenarios are possible depending on the photon's energy.
  • One participant raises the question of whether all entities exhibit a threshold frequency, suggesting that this may only apply in specific contexts, such as creating new particles or reaching excited states.
  • Examples of interactions beyond electrons and photons are discussed, including molecular interactions with electromagnetic frequencies and the behavior of conduction electrons in metals.
  • Quantum electrodynamics is mentioned as a model relevant to photon interactions, while quantum chromodynamics and the electroweak interaction are noted for other types of interactions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the nature of interactions and the applicability of threshold frequency, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without a clear consensus.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in explaining the fundamental "how" of interactions and the dependence on specific energy conditions and forces involved in different types of interactions.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying quantum mechanics, particle physics, or anyone curious about the interactions between photons and matter at a fundamental level.

MathewsMD
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For example, when you have a photon interacting with a bound electron, there is a work function relating the minimum energy photon capable of interaction (given by hf). My question is, what exactly is going on in this situation if the work function is exactly equivalent or less than the energy of the incident photon? How exactly does the photon and electron interact?

Also, is there anything similar to this? For example, an electron hitting a proton must have a particular energy requirement for interaction (right?). What exactly determines the threshold frequency necessary for interaction with a proton (is it the nuclear forces)? How about for structures composed of more than one atomic entity (e.g. sugar molecule)? Can a photon interact with the molecule as a whole or must it interact with distinct components (e.g. electrons, protons)? Can essentially anything interact with something else if it has enough energy?

I guess my question boils down to: do all things exhibit a "threshold frequency"?

Please let me know if you need any further clarifications or if I'm grossly mistaken on any points.
 
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MathewsMD said:
How exactly does the photon and electron interact?
Physics cannot answer "how" questions on a fundamental level. We just observe that interactions do happen, and find equations to describe the result of those interactions.
MathewsMD said:
For example, an electron hitting a proton must have a particular energy requirement for interaction (right?).
For inelastic interactions, where the particle contents change, yes.
MathewsMD said:
What exactly determines the threshold frequency necessary for interaction with a proton (is it the nuclear forces)?
Energy conservation. The energy of hadrons like the proton is mainly determined by the strong force (and quark masses). For molecules, you also have to consider the electromagnetic interaction and the electron mass.
MathewsMD said:
Can a photon interact with the molecule as a whole or must it interact with distinct components (e.g. electrons, protons)?
Both can happen, the energy of the photon is important.
MathewsMD said:
Can essentially anything interact with something else if it has enough energy?
Yes.
MathewsMD said:
I guess my question boils down to: do all things exhibit a "threshold frequency"?
Only if you want to create new particles, or reach excited states, or need the energy for something similar.
 
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mfb said:
Physics cannot answer "how" questions on a fundamental level. We just observe that interactions do happen, and find equations to describe the result of those interactions.

Sure. Are there any particular models for this particular type of interaction?

mfb said:
Both can happen, the energy of the photon is important. Yes.

Would you possibly know of an example besides electrons and photons (I might be missing something here)? Are there any models by chance for this?Thank you for all the help!
 
MathewsMD said:
Would you possibly know of an example besides electrons and photons
Molecules of many gases have rotational and vibrational energy states and they will interact with appropriate EM frequencies ( Infra red and Microwave photons). RF waves will interact with vast numbers of conduction electrons in a metal antenna to cause currents - which can be detected with a Radio Receiver. So it's best to refer to interaction with 'charge systems', rather than just with 'electrons', as in the Hydrogen atom.
 
MathewsMD said:
Sure. Are there any particular models for this particular type of interaction?
Quantum electrodynamics.
Would you possibly know of an example besides electrons and photons (I might be missing something here)? Are there any models by chance for this?
An example of what? The question I replied to was specific to the interactions of photons with matter.

For non-photon-related interactions, you also get quantum chromodynamics (for the strong interaction) and the electroweak interaction (which unifies the electromagnetic interaction with the weak interaction). Both together form the so-called Standard Model of particle physics, which (at least in theory) allows to predict all interactions (as long as gravity is irrelevant).
 

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