What is Space? A Theory Exploration

  • #51
To speak of 3D space being embedded in higher order dimensions without demonstrating a mathematical need for them to exist is metaphysics.
 
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  • #52
ShadowKnight said:
My mind is open to all ideas until scientifically proven wrong. However have you considered the possibility that we cannot "see" space because it really IS nothing? Someone posted here earlier that space and time are there to prevent the same objects from being at the same place at the same time. In other words something is needed to separate objects, otherwise everything would be like the bing bang singularity, everything together in one "place" at one "time".

Or...

That space really is made of something (let's use the well worn fabric analogy) but that the constituents of this fabric are so small that we cannot "see" them. That one day we may may make a collider so large and powerful that it could show us this?

Or...

Good old string theory that takes your idea a little further and (to my understanding) proposes that space is actually made of of tiny rolled up dimensions, Calabi-Yau manifolds, again too small for us to "see".

I cannot come up with any good scientific reasons that space itself cannot be 4 spatial dimensions as you propose, maybe someone a little better versed in this can offer some reasons.

I myself am open to new ideas. It is this very fact which has lead me to this point in my inquiry of the universe.
To comment on what you said about there being a need for space to separate things, I will say two things. One, even in the singularity of the big bang there was some space, however small in volume, but nevertheless there. It is impossible to conceive of something, without that something having existence in something else--try it. Try to picture anything and see what happens. you will realize that you will never be able to imagine anyone thing without that thing existing in something else. And that something else will always ultimately be space. (If you imagine yourself at home, you have already "pictured" space, for this space is a requirement to the visualization of the image of you at home--and so is time.)
And two, as I have just stated, both space and time are prerequisites of human beings before we can conceive of anything, that is to say, for anything whatsoever to able to be understood, visualized, grasped, etc., the concepts of space and time must already be present in the mind--again, try it. Please try to imagine anyone thought without space and time being in that thought. If you can do this I would truly call you beyond human. And furthermore, all this about space and time being requirements of understanding, is the philosophy of Immanuel Kant.
And now, the concept of nothing doesn't make any sense (and might I add, even zero is something; even if it is something insomuch that it is nothing, it is still something.) To say that nothing EXISTS (as you proposed), is to make a positive assertion, whereby, one is stating that there indeed is something which exists. And hence, nothing cannot exist, for to say that nothing does exist, one is stating that there is SOMETHING which exists. But however, if we state that nothing does not exist, then space cannot be this nothing, for space does exist--we live in it.
 
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  • #53
Chronos said:
To speak of 3D space being embedded in higher order dimensions without demonstrating a mathematical need for them to exist is metaphysics.

And? What's wrong with metaphysics? If you like, regard metaphysics as step pne of the scientific method--hypothesis. And furthermore, Kant's idea of island universes (other galaxies) was in his time considered sepeculative nonsense. But today, we in fact know of the existence of other gallaxies. And moreover, somethings can exist only metphyically, and metaphysics is the only path to these things. The potentiallity of love is such a metaphysical thing. Reply if you wish me to explain why the potentials of things exist metaphysically.
 
  • #54
Chronos can speak for himself, of course, but I think he's spot on ... metaphysics may be interesting, it may be rewarding, etc, etc, etc, but it isn't physics (so waxing metaphysical would be OT for this thread - if you feel a metaphysical discussion of 'space' would be nice, please go ahead and start a thread in the Philosophy part of PF :approve: ).
 
  • #55
Affirming what Nereid said, metaphysics is not science. You must show the math to make your point. My response will be the Einstein equations. The stress-energy tensor is very compelling to me.
 
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