What is the determinant of the given matrix and why do the scalers change sign?

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    Determinant
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the computation of the determinant of a specific 4x4 matrix and the reasoning behind the sign changes of scalars during the calculation process. The conversation includes both technical aspects of determinant calculation and notation preferences.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant computes the determinant of a given matrix and notes that there are some typographical errors in their calculation.
  • Another participant explains that when extracting a nonzero element from the matrix, it is multiplied by a factor of $(-1)^{i+j}$, where $i$ and $j$ are the row and column indices of that element.
  • Several participants question the use of the notation " ~ " instead of " = " in the matrix transformations, suggesting that the matrices are similar and their determinants should be equal.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the notation used for the matrix transformations, with some participants advocating for the use of " = " while others accept " ~ " as appropriate. The discussion on the determinant calculation remains unresolved, particularly regarding the sign changes of scalars.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the notation and its implications on the determinant calculations, but do not resolve the underlying mathematical steps or assumptions involved in the determinant computation.

karush
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Compute the determinant of the following matrix
$$\left| \begin{array}{cccc}
2 & 1 & 0 & 2 \\1 & 2 & 1 & 2 \\-1 & 1 & -3 & 2 \\1 & -1 & 1 & 0
\end{array} \right|
\sim
\left| \begin{array}{cccc}
2 & 1 & 0 & 2 \\1 & 2 & 1 & 2 \\-1 & 1 & -3 & 2 \\0 & 0 & -2 & 2
\end{array} \right|
\sim
\left| \begin{array}{cccc}
2 & 1 & 0 & 2 \\1 & 2 & 1 & 3 \\-1 & 1 & -3 & -1 \\0 & 0 & -2 & 0
\end{array} \right|$$
then
$$2\left| \begin{array}{cccc}
2 & 1 & 2 \\1 & 2 & 3 \\-1 & 1 & -1
\end{array} \right|
\sim
2\left| \begin{array}{cccc}
0 & 3 & 0 \\1 & 2 & 3 \\-1 & 1 & -1
\end{array} \right|$$
then
$$(-2)(3)\left| \begin{array}{cccc}
1 & 3 \\-1 & -1
\end{array} \right|$$
finally
$$=-6[((1)\cdot(-1))-((-1)\cdot(3))]=-12$$

ok prob some typos but why do the scalers change sign?

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If the only nonzero element in $i$th row is in $j$th column, then this element is taken out and multiplied by $(-1)^{i+j}$ and the minor obtained by erasing $i$th row and $j$th column. For example, in line 3 of your computation 3 is in line 1, row 2, so the $2\times2$ determinant is multiplied by $(-1)^{1+2}\cdot 3=-3$.
 
@karush

A notation comment: Why are you using " ~ " instead of " = "?

-Dan
 
topsquark said:
@karush

A notation comment: Why are you using " ~ " instead of " = "?

-Dan
He's being nice and waving at you :)
 
topsquark said:
@karush

A notation comment: Why are you using " ~ " instead of " = "?

-Dan
The teacher uses it $\sim$ meas similar
 
karush said:
The teacher uses it $\sim$ meas similar
That's kind of what I was wondering. The matrices are similar, the determinants of those matrices are equal. You wrote those as determinants so you should be using the " = ".

-Dan
 

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