What is the difference between internal energy and enthelpy?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on the differences between internal energy and enthalpy within the context of thermodynamics. Participants explore definitions, mathematical relationships, and common misconceptions regarding these two concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks clarification on whether enthalpy is a subset of internal energy or vice versa, indicating confusion over their definitions.
  • Another participant provides a mathematical relationship, stating that enthalpy (H) is defined as H = U + PV, suggesting that the difference between enthalpy and internal energy is the product of pressure and volume (PV).
  • The same participant explains that changes in internal energy (dU) relate to kinetic and potential energy changes, while changes in PV relate to work done on or by the system, highlighting the complexity of these concepts.
  • It is noted that if pressure remains constant, the change in enthalpy can be equated to heat flow into or out of the system (ΔH = ΔU + PΔV = Q).
  • Some participants criticize simplified definitions found online, arguing they can be misleading and emphasizing the importance of mathematical definitions over wordy explanations.
  • One participant mentions that a Wikipedia article previously contained misinformation regarding enthalpy and internal energy, which has since been corrected, reflecting ongoing concerns about the reliability of online resources.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the adequacy of simplified definitions and the importance of mathematical formulations. There is no consensus on the best way to understand the relationship between internal energy and enthalpy, as some participants emphasize the need for clarity while others point out common misconceptions.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight that the definitions and relationships discussed depend on specific conditions, such as constant pressure, and that misunderstandings can arise from oversimplified explanations.

abi.ayan
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could anyone explain me the fundamental different between internal energy and enthalpy? I searched and found the below definitions for both terms.
INTERNAL ENERGY:In thermodynamics, the internal energy is the energy contained by a thermodynamic system.

ENTHALPY:Enthalpy is a measure of the total energy of a thermodynamic system.


I really couldn't find the differences.Is enthalpy a subset of internal energy or internal energy a subset of enthalpy?
 
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abi.ayan said:
could anyone explain me the fundamental different between internal energy and enthalpy? I searched and found the below definitions for both terms.
INTERNAL ENERGY:In thermodynamics, the internal energy is the energy contained by a thermodynamic system.

ENTHALPY:Enthalpy is a measure of the total energy of a thermodynamic system.I really couldn't find the differences.Is enthalpy a subset of internal energy or internal energy a subset of enthalpy?
Enthalpy is defined as H = U + PV so the difference between H (enthalpy) and U (internal energy) is PV, the product of pressure and volume.

When a system changes thermodynamic state, there may be a change in Internal energy or a change in PV, or a combination of both.

The change in internal energy, dU, relates to the change in kinetic energy of the molecules plus their change in potential energy relative to each other if there are intermolecular forces.

The change in PV, d(PV), relates to the work done on or by the system (PdV) plus the volume x change in pressure (VdP) which is a kind of mechanical potential energy or mechanical stored energy. This VdP term can be confusing because it is actually included in the change in internal energy (dU)*.

Together these changes add up to the change in enthalpy. If there is no change in pressure (VdP=0) then by the first law of thermodynamics the change in enthalpy is the heat flow into or out of the system:

ΔHconstant P = ΔU + PΔV = Q

* [footnote: You have referred to a statement that enthalpy represents the total energy of the system (see, for example, the Wikipedia article referred to by UltrafastPED). This is not correct. The energy of the system is the internal energy. A change of this internal energy is equal to the change in enthalpy only if volume and pressure do not change. The change in enthalpy is equal to the energy flow into or out of the system during a thermodynamic process if pressure is constant. If pressure is not constant the change in enthalpy differs from the heat flow by that VdP term. For example, if volume is constant, the heat flow Q = ΔU and the change in enthalpy differs from the change in system energy by VΔP.

AM
 
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One line definitions you can find online are typically oversimplified and wrong.
 
Always try to understand and use the mathematical definitions. Wordy definitions such as "Enthalpy is a measure of the total energy of a thermodynamic system" are used to build intuition but are secondary to the mathematical definitions and are almost completely useless by themselves.
 
The misinformation in the Wikipedia article has now been corrected. It no longer makes the incorrect statement: "Enthalpy is a measure of the total energy of a thermodynamic system.". The error was made in August 2010 and has persisted ever since, despite criticism in the Talk section of the article.

Thanks to the OP for the post pointing out the understandable confusion. Who knows how many others have been misled over the last 3 1/2 years! This is a good example of why it is important not to rely only upon Wikipedia.

AM
 

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