What is the equilibrium temperature of copper and water?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the equilibrium temperature when a block of copper is placed in water. Participants explore the principles of thermodynamics, specifically the heat transfer between the two substances, and address issues related to their calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about their calculation, noting that their result for the equilibrium temperature is below 25°C, which contradicts expectations that it should be between 25°C and 80°C.
  • Another participant suggests that the original poster should share their working to identify potential errors in their calculations.
  • A participant provides a corrected equation for heat transfer, emphasizing that the total heat change should equal zero, and presents a formula to clarify the relationship between heat lost by copper and heat gained by water.
  • There is a light-hearted acknowledgment of the importance of showing calculations to avoid confusion in thermodynamic problems.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correct equilibrium temperature, as there are indications of confusion and potential errors in calculations. Multiple viewpoints on the approach to solving the problem are presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention different specific heat values for copper, which may indicate a lack of agreement on definitions or assumptions used in the calculations. The discussion also highlights the importance of correctly setting up the heat transfer equations.

Altairs
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I am not a novice at thermodynamics but still the following question made me think over my status more than twice.

I have to find the equilibrium temperature when a 50 Kg block of copper at 80C is placed in a container which as 120L of water at 25C.

I made simple equations of heat lost = heat gained. Used Specific Heat for water = 4.18 and for copper 0.285 (and 0.391) and used mcdelT. But the answer I get is below 25C. Where as it should be between 25 and 80.
 
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Altairs said:
I made simple equations of heat lost = heat gained. Used Specific Heat for water = 4.18 and for copper 0.285 (and 0.391) and used mcdelT. But the answer I get is below 25C. Where as it should be between 25 and 80.

Hi Altairs! :smile:

You know you should show us your working … otherwise how can we see where you went wrong? :confused:
 
Oh I forgot the PF SOP :rolleyes:

Heat Lost (by copper) = Heat Gained (by water)

[tex]50 * 0.385 (T_{e} - 80) = 0.12 * 1000 *4.18 (T_{e} - 25)[/tex]
 
Altairs said:
Oh I forgot the PF SOP :rolleyes:

Heat Lost (by copper) = Heat Gained (by water)

[tex]50 * 0.385 (T_{e} - 80) = 0.12 * 1000 *4.18 (T_{e} - 25)[/tex]

hmm … that's why we ask to see your working!

no wonder they both got colder! :rolleyes:

It would be less confusing if you said "total heat change = 0, therefore:"

[tex]50 * 0.385 (T_{e} - 80)\,+\,0.12 * 1000 *4.18 (T_{e} - 25)\,=\,0[/tex] :smile:
 
Ooh ! Thanks :blushing:
 

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