News What's your comment on the debate between Bush and Kerry?

[Saint]

read here:
http://www.democrats.org/debates/update.html

 

[wasteofo2]

The debates won't be broadcast until 9:00 Eastern time, another 25 or so minutes.

 

[megashawn]

keep me updated, I'm stuck at work!

 

[Gokul43201]

Just started.

Upon Kat suggestion, I'm following the Iowa Electronic Markets

Just before start : (8:55pm)

Bush = $0.682
Kerry = $0.338

 

[megashawn]

Whats with the dollar amounts?

And I've been waiting for the chance to tell you I love your quote.

 

[Gokul43201]

http://128.255.244.60/quotes/78.html

Kerry had a great chance with "How did Bush mislead the people about the War ?", but he blew it by not going into any details, or dropping any serious explosives. Instead he went over the same old drill again.

 

[graphic7]

So far, most of Bush's responses have not been very impressive. I don't know - it's just how he talks I suppose. Kerry, on the other hand, has been very presentable throughout the debate, so far.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Bush: Pure comedy I'd say. I knew I could count on him.

My favorite so far is that he will defeat terror because "he thinks about it every day".

 

[bjon-07]

Bush is getting his a@# kicked

 

[bjon-07]

This has to be one of the funnest things I have ever heard.

 

[graphic7]

I've heard some many "uh's" and "er's" from Bush, it's hilliarious. Kerry has been very quick and responsive.

 

[member 5645]

from the website:

George Bush stubbornly refused to face reality.
George Bush failed to deliver a plan for Iraq.
George Bush refused to accept responsibility for his failures.

those are some seriously objective reasons right there

 

[motai]

This debate doesn't seem like a debate to me. They aren't asking each other questions. No point-counterpoint style debating.

Lots of valence statement (a suprising amount of them from both Kerry and Bush). I already heard Kerry and Bush agree with each other several times.

Lets see where this ends up...

 

[Ivan Seeking]

When it is said that Bush stays on message, apparently this means that he has five answers used for everything.

 

[member 5645]

Bush is getting his a@# kicked

He got his ass kicked in 2000. this election and debates are is his to lose. He just has to hang in there to still win.
Kerry has a lot of proving of himself to do.
Will be interesting to see how this is all perceived. A bad showing on the first debate will be a winner for Bush in the next 2.

Remember that you are 'misunderestimating' him.

 

[Moonbear]

Oh, and Bush keeps telling us what hard work the presidency is. Maybe if he thinks it's such hard work, he should try some other profession. He keeps repeating the same crap over and over, even if it isn't relevant to the question.

I think Kerry is doing a pretty good job. He could have done a little better on a few questions, but he's getting his point across, speaking clearly, and not coming across cocky the way Bush is.

 

[kat]

Just started.

Upon Kat suggestion, I'm following the Iowa Electronic Markets

Just before start : (8:55pm)

Bush = $0.682
Kerry = $0.338

Gokul, where did you get this amt.? Did you take Dems less then 52% and Reps greater then 52% or?

Symbol Bid Ask Last Low High Average
DEM04_G52 0.089 0.099 0.090 0.088 0.125 0.100
DEM04_L52 0.225 0.232 0.220 0.209 0.266 0.235
REP04_L52 0.194 0.195 0.195 0.192 0.228 0.203
REP04_G52 0.470 0.479 0.480 0.415 0.507 0.480

 

[bjon-07]

I have not laughed this hard in a long time...mabye I should not be listening to this in the libary. People are starting to look at me funny.

 

[Moonbear]

This debate doesn't seem like a debate to me. They aren't asking each other questions. No point-counterpoint style debating.

Lots of valence statement (a suprising amount of them from both Kerry and Bush). I already heard Kerry and Bush agree with each other several times.

Lets see where this ends up...

These debates aren't meant to be them asking each other questions, it's the job of the moderator to ask the questions and them each to take turns answering them or responding to the others comments (think of it more like lawyers in court each presenting their case and arguments, not asking each other questions).

 

[kat]

I just wish Kerry would stop flicking his tongue in and out of his mouth. It's kinda icky.

 

[Moonbear]

When it is said that Bush stays on message, apparently this means that he has five answers used for everything.

That's for the S...L...O... W Bush followers who need the same handful of things repeated over and over and over so they can keep up.

 

[Moonbear]

I just wish Kerry would stop flicking his tongue in and out of his mouth. It's kinda icky.

I hadn't noticed that. Then again, I was listening, but not really doing a lot of watching...was trying to type notes to remember what each said, until I started typing "blah blah blah...same stuff" for Bush's remarks and decided I didn't really need to compare what they were saying afterward.

 

[Moonbear]

In the end, I thought it was a really good debate. I actually feel like I learned something more about Kerry's position and got some good concrete answers out of him. Hard to get too many details out of 2 min answers, but some details started to form. Kerry kept stating that Bush's position was 4 words: more of the same, and Bush fell right into that pattern by repeating over and over ad nauseum more of the same! I know public speaking is not Bush's strong suit, but I did think he'd do a little better than he did tonight. He just came across cocky...some hmphs and other noises while Kerry was speaking that just seemed very childish...more like what I'd expect on People's Court than in a presidential debate.

 

[kat]

Moonbear, I really didn't hear anything new. Kerry seemed to be repeating that he only had ONE message and struggling to avoid using the word "vietnam". Bush, seemed defensive at the beginning but had a strong ending.

 

[Gokul43201]

The debates are worth jack$#!t, in my opinion. I thought Al Gore did a far better job than Bush in 2000. However, Bush got a jump after the debates then. So I just throw up my hands, shake my head and walk away.

It's got nothing to do with what's said, because the average person is NOT aware enough of the issues, in order to determine what is a real answer, what is a dodge, and what is a simple wool-pulling job. Also, most people won't notice when the answer has little to do with the question.

 

[Moonbear]

Moonbear, I really didn't hear anything new. Kerry seemed to be repeating that he only had ONE message and struggling to avoid using the word "vietnam". Bush, seemed defensive at the beginning but had a strong ending.

I thought Bush seemed defensive throughout. Kerry saying he had one message is a good tactic...he needed to say that because Bush kept alluding to flip-flopping. Kerry was making the point that he hasn't wavered and explained that. Maybe some of the things Kerry outlined were covered in other speeches he's given, but I haven't heard them myself before, so it was good for me to hear them this way. Of course pretty much every question was about Iraq, so there really wasn't much chance to talk about anything else. The choice of questions really forced them both to be somewhat repetitive because the questions were repetitive. I really hope the next two debates planned address some other issues. Iraq is a big deal and a big mess that someone needs to deal with, but there are other issues too that we need to hear about.

 

[Gokul43201]

Gokul, where did you get this amt.? Did you take Dems less then 52% and Reps greater then 52% or?

Symbol Bid Ask Last Low High Average
DEM04_G52 0.089 0.099 0.090 0.088 0.125 0.100
DEM04_L52 0.225 0.232 0.220 0.209 0.266 0.235
REP04_L52 0.194 0.195 0.195 0.192 0.228 0.203
REP04_G52 0.470 0.479 0.480 0.415 0.507 0.480

I added the numbers for X gets the biggest share but less than 52% and X gets more than 52%. So, those numbers simply represent "X gets the bigger share".

Opening : K = $0.338 ; B = $0.682
Now : K = $0.333 ; B = $0.682

 

[kat]

(IET 15min update)

Symbol Bid Ask Last Low High Average
DEM04_G52 0.088 0.090 0.092 0.088 0.125 0.099
DEM04_L52 0.230 0.240 0.230 0.209 0.266 0.234
REP04_L52 0.194 0.195 0.195 0.192 0.228 0.202
REP04_G52 0.480 0.490 0.490 0.415 0.507 0.480

 

[Mercator]

What was probably most important: kerry had good hair.

 

[Moonbear]

The debates are worth jack$#!t, in my opinion. I thought Al Gore did a far better job than Bush in 2000. However, Bush got a jump after the debates then. So I just throw up my hands, shake my head and walk away.

It's got nothing to do with what's said, because the average person is NOT aware enough of the issues, in order to determine what is a real answer, what is a dodge, and what is a simple wool-pulling job. Also, most people won't notice when the answer has little to do with the question.

I think your last comment is the most disturbing, and very true. I think those of us posting here are intelligent enough to know when questions are or aren't answered, but I think there are a lot of people who don't notice this at all. That's probably why Bush does well by just repeating a few key messages even if they don't answer the questions actually asked. The average joe can walk away from this with a list of 5 points Bush made and remember what he had to say. How many people will remember all the points Kerry made tonight? It confuses the average person to hear complex arguments. Kerry seemed to try hard tonight to keep things simple, to say things that fit into good soundbites, and maybe it will work...we'll have to see which quotes get aired on the morning news.

 

[Moonbear]

What was probably most important: kerry had good hair.

LOL! I thought Bush looked a bit haggard when the debate started, but they must have gotten a better camera angle on him or something once it got underway.

 

[Loren Booda]

I could look the accomplished Kerry in the eye; when I did look at Bush, he appeared at worst like Alfred E. Newman - "What, me worry"? I was embarrassed for him. Kerry was a skilled and presentable debater, Bush showed himself to be inept in comparison. I think America has a new, positive idea as to what Kerry would bring as president. If Bush continues the poor performance, the election may swing on the debates.

 

[Smurf]

I predicted such a thing would happen, when Kerry wins the election I'm going to tell you all that I told you so.

 

[kat]

I didn't really hear Kerry giving any specifics about his plan for Iraq except the one comment almost at the end.

 

[Spectre32]

Yeah I don't really like debates, but i will tell you this.. My dad was in Vietnam as a front line medic. He was in the airfoce and got droped outta helicopters to go patch up the wounded. HE overall dosn't like either of them, but what really got him pissed off at kerry was that he said something in his closing speech about his serivce in Vietnam. Well I can say is, if you did do something good in that Hellish place, please answer me as to why your own "unit"(Swift Boat Vets) is condemming you. I think he stomped himself there. Over all my views haven't changed.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

On NBC, a group of undecided voters in Ohio were polled about their impressions of the debate. Unanimously they declared Kerry the winner. Several commented that he conveyed greater confidence as a leader.

I think what they mean is that his words actually convey information.

 

[Gokul43201]

Wolf Blitzer just asked Karen Hughes if she believes A.Q. Khan (who was responsible for nuclear proliferation & sale of nuclear materiel and technology to DPRK and Libya) has been brought to justice, as Bush just claimed.

She replied that "The AQ Khan network has been seriously crippled, and President Bush ...blah blah (unrelated to question)". This is a nearly verbatim quote.

Wolf had to repeat the question because it wasn't answered the first time, adding this time if she believed Khan had been brought to justice, seeing that he had been pardoned and is a free man serving no punishment whatsoever. Again a dodge... <shrug>

 

[member 5645]

On NBC, a group of undecided voters in Ohio were polled about their impressions of the debate. Unanimously they declared Kerry the winner. Several commented that he conveyed greater confidence as a leader.

I think what they mean is that his words actually convey information.

I'm a Bush supporter, at this point, and I agree.
Again, I think this is a tactic and Bush's expectations have been lowered. The next two debates will finish with Bush as a win, and then tied (atleast in the poll's eyes)

 

[Gokul43201]

On NBC, a group of undecided voters in Ohio were polled about their impressions of the debate. Unanimously they declared Kerry the winner. Several commented that he conveyed greater confidence as a leader.

I think what they mean is that his words actually convey information.

Bill Hemmer of CNN was 3 blocks away from me, at the Ohio State University, doing the same. Results haven't been released yet (and they had meters where they could relay real time emotion) but it looked like the women liked Bush better, especially when he said "you can not denigrate the soldiers". The men seemed to like Kerry better.

 

[Gokul43201]

Say phatmonky, did this debate affect your slant in any way ? Did anyone gain/lose points in your evaluation ?

Who else here is closer to the fence than the average liberal/conservative ?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

The first debate is historically the most important. If this is their strategy then it could well backfire. Personally, I don't this was the case. I think that for the first time people are seeing Bush held accountable for real answers.


Edit: wow this is moving fast. I was responding to phatmonky

I'm a Bush supporter, at this point, and I agree.
Again, I think this is a tactic and Bush's expectations have been lowered. The next two debates will finish with Bush as a win, and then tied (atleast in the poll's eyes)

 

[kat]

I think this is similar to the Gore debate. Those of us who debate and follow reporting and soundbytes on a regular basis are probably following the details of the debate closer then those who don't. Others will be hearing only the strongest repeated soundbytes. Repeating and ending with strong statements IS Bushes strength. For those who are not politically savvy...that will be what sticks in their mind over the next few days.

 

[check]

I thought Al Gore did a far better job than Bush in 2000.

I totally agree, but Gore did come off as a 'know-it-all' which many people disliked. Too bad though, would have made a MUCH better president than Bush...but who wouldn't?

Anyway, Kerry did a MUCH better job than Bush, IMO. Kerry gave good, articulate answers, and he did express his plans. The voters now know much more about him.

Bush was unimpressive and at sometimes even laughable. Actually, I was watching it with a buddy and at least half a dozen times we burst out laughing. Oh my...

It's going to be interesting to see the new polls after this one.

 

[member 5645]

Say phatmonky, did this debate affect your slant in any way ? Did anyone gain/lose points in your evaluation ?

Who else here is closer to the fence than the average liberal/conservative ?

I only caught half of the debates so I can only comment on the general feeling. I'm looking for full footage online right now and will make a full out post when I do. I started giving my impressions so far, but I will reserve them for when I make a post about the whole thing :)

 

[kat]

IET update...

Symbol Bid Ask Last Low High Average
DEM04_G52 0.089 0.092 0.089 0.088 0.125 0.099
DEM04_L52 0.221 0.232 0.234 0.209 0.266 0.234
REP04_L52 0.194 0.195 0.194 0.192 0.228 0.202
REP04_G52 0.487 0.490 0.496 0.415 0.507 0.480

Using Gokuls method:
K= $0.31; B= $0.681 (Opening : K = $0.338 ; B = $0.682)

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Yes like,

Q: How do you respond to allegations that you lied about Iraq

A Bush: [long, silent, deer-in-the-headlights look]...um, er, I don't take it personally.

Jim Lerher: um...okay.

 

[Smurf]

Yeah I don't really like debates, but i will tell you this.. My dad was in Vietnam as a front line medic. He was in the airfoce and got droped outta helicopters to go patch up the wounded. HE overall dosn't like either of them, but what really got him pissed off at kerry was that he said something in his closing speech about his serivce in Vietnam. Well I can say is, if you did do something good in that Hellish place, please answer me as to why your own "unit"(Swift Boat Vets) is condemming you. I think he stomped himself there. Over all my views haven't changed.

They're condemning him because they were paid to.

The fact that he won (not 1 but) 4 medals, 3 Purple Hearts and 1 Silver star (last time I checked) Convinces me he saw combat somewhere, either that or this is the biggest military scam I've ever heard of.

 

[Moonbear]

Here's my report back from another current events board. I was expecting a flurry of posts there about the debate and went to check them out. For the past 6 months or so, there have been a clearly divided band of Bush supporters and Kerry supporters, neither wavering from their sides. To my shock and amazement, quite a few of the Bush supporters were starting to waver after tonight's debate and the Kerry supporters seem to be even more solidly on his side. Some of these folks I thought were die-hard conservatives who would never even consider voting for anyone other than a republican, but even they admitted to being impressed with Kerry. He came across not only polished, with good answers, but as "likeable." Remember, even though Gore did really well in the 2000 debates, he never connected with voters and never came across as likeable. Anyway, it seems this debate actually got people thinking and not just voting party lines. Even if in the end people previously supporting Bush stay with Bush, I think they are at least more willing to listen to what Kerry has to say now and make a more informed choice. That is a huge leap forward!

 

[kat]

They're condemning him because they were paid to.

The fact that he won (not 1 but) 4 medals, 3 Purple Hearts and 1 Silver star (last time I checked) Convinces me he saw combat somewhere, either that or this is the biggest military scam I've ever heard of.

Oh BULL****, nobody paid my father for condemning him, nobody paid his father for condemning him...MY father was right there at monkey mountain, saaaammeee time period as Kerry...only my father didn't abuse the system to get out after 3.25 months. There is also a rapidly building case that it WAS a scam, if it wasn't then Kerry could just release his after action report for PH#1 along with the rest of his records.

 

[Smurf]

I was referring to the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (only public group I know of - Canadian)

Your father is one of the swift boat veterans for truth?