Where Does Momentum Go Near Merging Black Holes?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the behavior of momentum in the context of merging black holes, particularly focusing on hypothetical scenarios involving rockets near these black holes. Participants explore concepts related to gravity, momentum conservation, and the implications of general relativity in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a scenario involving two rockets near merging black holes, questioning where the momentum of a second rocket goes if it appears to lose momentum despite starting with more.
  • Another participant challenges the idea that merging black holes create new gravity, asserting that the gravitational effects remain consistent with the combined effects of the two separate black holes.
  • Concerns are raised about the application of classical physics concepts to black holes, suggesting a need for a relativistic understanding of time, space, momentum, and motion.
  • Some participants note that momentum is conserved locally, implying that any momentum loss must be accounted for in gravitational waves generated during the merger.
  • Questions arise regarding the interpretation of "creating new gravity" and its relation to the non-linear aspects of the Einstein field equations, with requests for clarification and references.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of gravity during black hole mergers and the implications for momentum conservation. There is no consensus on the interpretation of "new gravity" or the application of classical versus relativistic physics in this scenario.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the limitations of classical physics in explaining phenomena related to black holes, indicating a need for a more nuanced understanding of relativistic effects and the conservation of momentum in curved spacetime.

Filmo
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Let's say you start 2 rockets in the opposite direction from a platform that's close to two soon to be merging black holes, the first rocket starts way before the second, but the second will ultimately fly a bit further, before they stop and fly back to towards the black hole(s). When black holes merge, they create new gravity and this gravity is supposed to attract the rockets. The second rocket who is closer to the merged black hole and has more momentum than the first rocket will not make it as far as the first one. This means that the second rocket that had more momentum, is losing some momentum and the first rocket will actually fly back faster. Where has the momentum of the second rocket gone?

But what if gravity doesn't really attract, but it actually increases the momentum and this effect is only visible when new gravity is created?
 
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Filmo said:
When black holes merge, they create new gravity
The merger of black holes does not create new gravity. Heuristically, the gravitation of one merged hole is the same as the combined gravitational effects of two separate holes.

In general relativity, momentum is conserved locally. I am not expert enough to know how this translates into global momentum conservation. Or the extent to which a law of global momentum conservation can even be stated in the context of curved space-time.
 
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Filmo said:
Let's say you start 2 rockets in the opposite direction from a platform that's close to two soon to be merging black holes, the first rocket starts way before the second, but the second will ultimately fly a bit further, before they stop and fly back to towards the black hole(s). When black holes merge, they create new gravity and this gravity is supposed to attract the rockets. The second rocket who is closer to the merged black hole and has more momentum than the first rocket will not make it as far as the first one. This means that the second rocket that had more momentum, is losing some momentum and the first rocket will actually fly back faster. Where has the momentum of the second rocket gone?
This post is too much a confusion of ideas to be answerable. There are no black holes in classical physics - so, as an absolute minimum you would need to upgrade your ideas of time, space, momentum and motion from classical to relativistic thinking.
 
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Filmo said:
When black holes merge, they create new gravity
What does this mean? Are you taking about non-linear parts of the Einstein field equations? If so, can you point a reference to exactly what effects you mean by this?

Momentum is locally conserved, so if any momentum disappears from the matter then it must go into local gravitational waves.
 
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Dale said:
Are you taking about non-linear parts of the Einstein field equations?
Not in a B-level thread, I would imagine!
 
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PeroK said:
Not in a B-level thread, I would imagine!
Definitely not! But I cannot think of any other legitimate meaning for the phrase about creating new gravity.
 
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