Lingusitics Where is English the Official Language ?

[zoobyshoe]

Where is English the "Official Language"?

I figure:

Canada
US
England
Ireland
Scotland
Australia
New Zealand

I am not sure about:

Wales
India
Philippines
Guam
South Africa

 

[cbetanco]

I don't think english the the official language of the US. I think its the de facto "official" language

 

[Jack21222]

I figure:

Canada
US
England
Ireland
Scotland
Australia
New Zealand

I am not sure about:

Wales
India
Philippines
Guam
South Africa

English is not legally recognized as the official language of the United States. Some African countries have English as the (or an) official language. Nigeria comes to mind.

Here, let me Google this for you...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_where_English_is_an_official_language

 

[zoobyshoe]

English is not legally recognized as the official language of the United States.

Amazing! Neither is it in the UK or Australia!

 

[Ryan_m_b]

Amazing! Neither is it in the UK or Australia!

That's because in the UK we have no "official" language. Though it is funny that the Commonwealth has English as it's official language.

 

[Office_Shredder]

It makes sense... you only need an official language when it could be called into question what language people should be speaking. It's like saying the official sky color is blue, if everybody speaks English you don't really need the legislature to point that out. Now that Spanish is becoming more prevalent in America we're starting to see people pushing for an official language here.

In Wales all road signs are required to be posted in Welsh, so I doubt that English is the official language in any such capacity

 

[Ryan_m_b]

Now that Spanish is becoming more prevalent in America we're starting to see people pushing for an official language here.

In Wales all road signs are required to be posted in Welsh, so I doubt that English is the official language in any such capacity

The Welsh rules are more to do with national pride than because many people speak Welsh. Indeed only about 20% of Welsh people can speak it with just over half of them doing it daily http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_language.

It's true though that Welsh is the official language of Wales, again national pride rather than because of the pervasiveness of the language.

 

[zoobyshoe]

It makes sense... you only need an official language when it could be called into question what language people should be speaking. It's like saying the official sky color is blue, if everybody speaks English you don't really need the legislature to point that out. Now that Spanish is becoming more prevalent in America we're starting to see people pushing for an official language here.

Yes, this makes perfect sense. You don't need to make anything "official" in the absence of a viable alternative.

 

[AlephZero]

In Wales all road signs are required to be posted in Welsh, so I doubt that English is the official language in any such capacity

There is a law that says Welsh and English must be treated equally so far as the public sector is concerned. All government documents, websites, road signs, etc, are bilingual.

This sometimes has unintended consequences, like http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7702913.stm

BTW it's obvious to Brits that English is not the official language of the US. They can't spell it, they can't pronounce it, and even the grammar has "gotten" mangled

 

[Ryan_m_b]

This sometimes has unintended consequences, like http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7702913.stm

Haha I do love that story. The best example of a similar thing is;

In the same year, a sign for pedestrians in Cardiff reading 'Look Right' in English read 'Look Left' in Welsh.

 

[D H]

"No! Not that left. Your OTHER left!"

 

[zoobyshoe]

BTW it's obvious to Brits that English is not the official language of the US. They can't spell it, they can't pronounce it, and even the grammar has "gotten" mangled

Hello. We're talking about language.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnHv7NGWb0k

 

[Borek]

"No! Not that left. Your OTHER left!"

That's completely different problem.

- Turn left.
- My left, or your left?

 

[D H]

Hello. We're talking about language.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnHv7NGWb0k

From that video it's obvious that you Brits and We Americans do have one thing in common: Too much laugh track.

 

[zoobyshoe]

From that video it's obvious that you Brits and We Americans do have one thing in common: Too much laugh track.

There's a laugh track? I guess I was laughing too loud to hear it.

 

[Kevin_Axion]

English isn't the official language of Canada, we have two: English and French. All students in Canada have to learn French from grade 1 to grade 9.

 

[cepheid]

Do you mean in which countries is it the *sole* official language, or just in which countries is it one of the official languages?

Canada has two official languages: English and French.

I know that English is an official language of India. I am not sure if it is the only one.

 

[rootX]

There is a law that says Welsh and English must be treated equally so far as the public sector is concerned. All government documents, websites, road signs, etc, are bilingual.

This sometimes has unintended consequences, like http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7702913.stm

BTW it's obvious to Brits that English is not the official language of the US. They can't spell it, they can't pronounce it, and even the grammar has "gotten" mangled

 

[zoobyshoe]

Do you mean in which countries is it the *sole* official language, or just in which countries is it one of the official languages?

Canada has two official languages: English and French.

I know that English is an official language of India. I am not sure if it is the only one.

Having two official languages kind of defeats the purpose of an official language IMO.

 

[cepheid]

Having two official languages kind of defeats the purpose of an official language IMO.

Bilingualism is a touchy subject here. I agree that it certainly increases costs/inefficiency etc. to require the state to put out all materials in two different languages. But it is a historically significant political development and an important compromise.

 

[rootX]

Bilingualism is a touchy subject here. I agree that it certainly increases costs/inefficiency etc. to require the state to put out all materials in two different languages. But it is a historically significant political development and an important compromise.

Canada "doesn't" really have French as official language outside Quebec. You wouldn't see a stop sign in both French and English. Many Canadians can barely speak French.

I agree that it's a delicate subject and has historical significance.

India seems to have a better languages structure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_with_official_status_in_India). There are two official language but each State has its own official language. In Canada, it would make more sense if French was official at provincial level.

I wouldn't be surprised if in a century Canada gets something like India knowing that it's a multicultural nation.

 

[Evo]

Unfortuantely the US spends tons of money to do things in both English and Spanish, signs, websites, phonecalls. I've always been of the opinion that if you move to a country you need to learn to speak the common language. maybe the US does need to make English the official language. Growing up in Houston, TX, I was forced to be bi-lingual. Since the Mexicans refused to speak Mexican to customers unless they got paid extra, I was often referred to Mexican speaking customers. Amazing that after leaving Texas over 30 years ago, I've lost most of the Mexican I knew.

 

[StevieTNZ]

The 'legal' (de jure) official languages of New Zealand are Te Reo Maori, and New Zealand Sign Language. Wikipedia points out to me that "English is the dominant and a de facto official language"

 

[Ivan Seeking]

BTW it's obvious to Brits that English is not the official language of the US. They can't spell it, they can't pronounce it, and even the grammar has "gotten" mangled

Nah, we just corrected the flaws and added enhancements.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Growing up in Houston, TX, I was forced to be bi-lingual. Since the Mexicans refused to speak Mexican to customers unless they got paid extra, I was often referred to Mexican speaking customers. Amazing that after leaving Texas over 30 years ago, I've lost most of the Mexican I knew.

You can take the girl out of Texas, but you can't make her stop referring to Spanish as "Mexican". Hehe.

 

[zoobyshoe]

...and New Zealand Sign Language.

?

Is this a language for the deaf, or a silent alternative to the Maori language?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Unfortuantely the US spends tons of money to do things in both English and Spanish, signs, websites, phonecalls. I've always been of the opinion that if you move to a country you need to learn to speak the common language. maybe the US does need to make English the official language. Growing up in Houston, TX, I was forced to be bi-lingual. Since the Mexicans refused to speak Mexican to customers unless they got paid extra, I was often referred to Mexican speaking customers. Amazing that after leaving Texas over 30 years ago, I've lost most of the Mexican I knew.

There are areas of Los Angeles where virtually no English is spoken.

I once dated a girl who couldn't speak any English [but she could have been a model!]. And I only knew the basics of Spanish. Course, back then, talking wasn't necessary.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Nah, we just corrected the flaws and added enhancements.

I'm so happy we don't say "Aluminium". The revolution was worth that one improvement by itself.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I'm so happy we don't say "Aluminium". The revolution was worth that one improvement by itself.

Yes it was; for that and getting rid of that annoying u in "colour".

 

[cepheid]

Canada "doesn't" really have French as official language outside Quebec. You wouldn't see a stop sign in both French and English. Many Canadians can barely speak French.

In the only relevant sense of the word "official" (codified and required for all state documentation/communications/publications), bilingualism is "official." It's in the constitution. That is what is meant by the word "official." I was not discussing the homogeneity of usage, or the prevalence, of French in Canada, because they are not relevant to the discussion. The government defines which are the official languages of the nation, regardless of how meaningful that is practically. You cannot argue that English and French are not both official languages, because it is true by definition.

I can buy anything, any product, it could be breakfast cereal from a store in the middle of Alberta, and that packaging will have all information on it twice: once in English and once in French. Why? Because it's required by law.

Side note: I should point out that stop signs have a universal shape and colour, making it less important what is written on them.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

The People's Democratic Republic of Northern South Jersey is the only place where English is spoken without an accent.

 

[MATLABdude]

English isn't the official language of Canada, we have two: English and French. All students in Canada have to learn French from grade 1 to grade 9.

Eh? Unless something has changed since the time I was in school (graduated in 2000), I don't believe there was any requirement for French (or any other language). At least, not in Alberta (where, despite some stereotypes, there's a large Franco-Canadian population, and a lot of people that speak and understand French).

I think true bilingualism (as in fluency in both languages, if not necessarily use of both) only happens in New Brunswick, and, ironically, Quebec.

 

[zoobyshoe]

The People's Democratic Republic of Northern South Jersey is the only place where English is spoken without an accent.

Next time I'm at a coffeehouse I'm going to write that down in some student's notebook while they're in the restroom.

 

[neyzenyelda]

English is better than the official language in Turkey.
no one can find any job without speaking English.

 

[epenguin]

Yes it was; for that and getting rid of that annoying u in "colour".

Making you colourless.

 

[StevieTNZ]

?

Is this a language for the deaf, or a silent alternative to the Maori language?

Langauge for the deaf.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Sign_Language

 

[KrisOhn]

Eh? Unless something has changed since the time I was in school (graduated in 2000), I don't believe there was any requirement for French (or any other language).

I could see it being optional in a larger school (if you went to a larger school that is) where more courses are being offered, but my experience is consistent with Kevin's where it was mandatory between grades 1-9.

 

[zoobyshoe]

English is better than the official language in Turkey.
no one can find any job without speaking English.

Why on Earth is that?

 

[zoobyshoe]

Langauge for the deaf.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Sign_Language

The spoken language seems to have been made "official" to somehow try and prevent it from disappearing altogether, and the sign language seems to have been made official to highlight the rights of the deaf.

 

[epenguin]

BTW it's obvious to Brits that English is not the official language of the US. They can't spell it, they can't pronounce it, and even the grammar has "gotten" mangled

Nah, we just corrected the flaws and added enhancements.

I'm so happy we don't say "Aluminium". The revolution was worth that one improvement by itself.

We do take up a lot of useful bits of American. There might be some words or expressions that have completely supplanted our own. In the nature of this one would mostly not be aware of them, however I think they are not many. I think we are mostly aware of the imports. At the extreme they can be like deliberately using other foreign words and even a kind of affectation. I think we are somewhat aware of their strata, of what is real old American, what is folksy or MarkTwainese, what is more modern or up to date modish journalese etc. I certainly do use some for some shades of meaning or effect.

There has also been some increment in the last decade or two because forums etc. tend to have incorporated American spellchecks - this one for example.

 

[AlephZero]

Nah, we just corrected the flaws and added enhancements.

Not always. Some Americanisms are leftovers from 16th century British English. For example "gotten" is in the King James Bible (e.g. Genesis 4:1).

 

[256bits]

I could see it being optional in a larger school (if you went to a larger school that is) where more courses are being offered, but my experience is consistent with Kevin's where it was mandatory between grades 1-9.

Education falls under provincial jurisdiction so any blanket statement about the curiculum for the schools in Canada cannot be considered a valid statement. What is decided for British Columbia or Alberta, for example, as being the best for their students to develop intellectually, cannot be transferred over to another province such as Newfoundland and Labrador or Quebec, where other criteria may be considered of importance by the provincial government.

Official bilingualism and the designation of two official languages, is under the jurisdiction of the Canadian government and as such encompasses the whole country. To repeat myself, it covers that which is only under Canadian gouvernment jurisdiction. It was implemented so that a citizen could be offrered services in the language of choice be it either English or French. Education does not fall under Canadian jurisdiction.

 

[zoobyshoe]

We do take up a lot of useful bits of American. There might be some words or expressions that have completely supplanted our own. In the nature of this one would mostly not be aware of them, however I think they are not many. I think we are mostly aware of the imports. At the extreme they can be like deliberately using other foreign words and even a kind of affectation. I think we are somewhat aware of their strata, of what is real old American, what is folksy or MarkTwainese, what is more modern or up to date modish journalese etc. I certainly do use some for some shades of meaning or effect.

There has also been some increment in the last decade or two because forums etc. tend to have incorporated American spellchecks - this one for example.

Yes. Here in the US regional accents are constantly being ironed flatter and flatter by television. Each new batch of kids wants to talk like their TV heros, for one thing, and American TV personalities exhibit less and less diversity of accent with each new decade. Britishisms, Australianisms, and Canadianisms are occasionally entrained into the mix, adopted at first as spice, then, after a couple passes of the iron, the wrinkles of their foreign-ness are gone and kids repeat them without knowing they are supposed to sound affected for effect.

Obviously, we're approaching a limit of zero, and at some point, say in a thousand years, everyone in the world will speak the same language, all with the accent-less accent of The People's Democratic Republic of Northern South Jersey.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Yes. Here in the US regional accents are constantly being ironed flatter and flatter by television.

Even as a kid I realized that Southern Californian is the only true American English, dude. And it was easy to tell; even the people on the Evening News out of New York talked like Californians.

Presumably it was the Hollywood influence on national television that made it so. For example, Tom Brokaw started with NBC in Los Angeles, as did Connie Chung and many of the top anchors [with one of the three networks] of their day. Incidently, I met Connie Chung once when she was just a local girl.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Even as a kid I realized that Southern Californian is the only true American English, dude. And it was easy to tell; even the people on the Evening News out of New York talked like Californians.

Presumably it was the Hollywood influence on national television that made it so. For example, Tom Brokaw started with NBC in Los Angeles, as did Connie Chung and many of the top anchors [with one of the three networks] of their day. Incidently, I met Connie Chung once when she was just a local girl.

It's hard to trace the origin of the Standard American Accent. When I lived in Minnesota it was often claimed it originated there, and, indeed the average Minnesota native has no noticeable accent. (What's strange is that every Minnesotan can imitate the funny Minnesota accent that everyone ascribes to Minnesota, but no one actually authentically talks that way. At least, not in Minneapolis.)

If you watch any very old movie you notice they speak with this distinct and slightly peculiar accent that I have never been able to place. It's vaguely, just vaguely East Coast, without being NY, Bostonian, or otherwise specifically locatable to any East Coast city. I sometimes wonder if it wasn't an invention: "actor's diction", maybe. It got carried into early TV, sometimes cropping up on episodes of the original Twilight Zone, but it was pretty much gone by the 60's. Anyway, I never actually heard anyone speak with that accent in real life, despite it being ubiquitous in early American movies.

At some point that was overthrown and guys like Johnny Carson and Dan Rather were considered to be speaking the "standard" American accent. All newscasters and talk show hosts now speak in that general way. They all glom* in Southern California because that's where the TV and Film industry glommed, but that is not necessarily where the accent came from.

*I checked and the word "glom" is perfectly cromulent.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

It's hard to trace the origin of the Standard American Accent. When I lived in Minnesota it was often claimed it originated there, and, indeed the average Minnesota native has no noticeable accent. (What's strange is that every Minnesotan can imitate the funny Minnesota accent that everyone ascribes to Minnesota, but no one actually authentically talks that way. At least, not in Minneapolis.)

If you watch any very old movie you notice they speak with this distinct and slightly peculiar accent that I have never been able to place. It's vaguely, just vaguely East Coast, without being NY, Bostonian, or otherwise specifically locatable to any East Coast city. I sometimes wonder if it wasn't an invention: "actor's diction", maybe. It got carried into early TV, sometimes cropping up on episodes of the original Twilight Zone, but it was pretty much gone by the 60's. Anyway, I never actually heard anyone speak with that accent in real life, despite it being ubiquitous in early American movies.

At some point that was overthrown and guys like Johnny Carson and Dan Rather were considered to be speaking the "standard" American accent. All newscasters and talk show hosts now speak in that general way. They all glom* in Southern California because that's where the TV and Film industry glommed, but that is not necessarily where the accent came from.

*I checked and the word "glom" is perfectly cromulent.

I don't really see how one could separate the SC accent from the region. As much as the US is a melting pot for the world, California was a melting pot for the US. Just in my immediate neighborhood as a kid, we had a pretty global mix of Americans who were mostly 1st and 2nd generation California transplants, but for the most part we all spoke alike [except for recent immigrants, obviously].

I thought the notion of a Standard American Accent is contrived. It only seems to exist because of Hollywood. When I traveled around the US a lot, it was obvious that there are still vast differences in dialect. I actually hated working in some States in the South because I couldn't understand a damned thing half the people were saying. That is a real problem in my line of work.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I thought the notion of a Standard American Accent is contrived. It only seems to exist because of Hollywood.

That's what I'm saying. But Hollywood and TV aren't contrivedly disseminating a "standard" accent that originated in California. They are contrivedly disseminating an accent that originated in the Midwest.

Here we go:

Regional home of General American

It is commonly believed that General American English evolved as a result of an aggregation of rural and suburban Midwestern dialects, though the English of the Upper Midwest can deviate quite dramatically from what would be considered a "regular" American Accent.[citation needed] The local accent often gets more distinct the farther north one goes within the Midwest, and the more rural the area, with the Northern Midwest featuring its own dialect North Central American English.[citation needed] The fact that a Midwestern dialect became the basis of what is General American English is often attributed to the mass migration of Midwestern farmers to California and the Pacific Northwest from where it spread.


The area of the United States where the local accent is most similar to General American

The Telsur Project[3] (of William Labov and others) examines a number of phonetic properties by which regional accents of the U.S. may be identified. The area with Midwestern regional properties is indicated on the map: eastern Nebraska (including Omaha and Lincoln), southern and central Iowa (including Des Moines), and western Illinois (including Peoria and the Quad Cities but not the Chicago area).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_American

The accent of the average white person you encounter on the street in Minneapolis is indistinguishable from the average white person you encounter on the street in San Diego and LA. The movement of this accent was from the midwest to California, though, not the other way around.

TV and film, by disseminating that accent as "standard" are, in fact, slowly causing it to be so.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

You can take the girl out of Texas, but you can't make her stop referring to Spanish as "Mexican". Hehe.

The Spanish spoken in Mexico is considered a dialect of Spanish spoken in Spain. There are apparently even differences between the language as spoken by people in and from Mexico versus those who grew up with Spanish in the US.

 

[D H]

It's hard to trace the origin of the Standard American Accent. When I lived in Minnesota it was often claimed it originated there, and, indeed the average Minnesota native has no noticeable accent. (What's strange is that every Minnesotan can imitate the funny Minnesota accent that everyone ascribes to Minnesota, but no one actually authentically talks that way. At least, not in Minneapolis.)

I too was raised in Minnesota and I too heard that tripe. It's tripe. People from outside Minnesota think that the Minnesotans they run across have a marked accent. Maybe not as strong as that exemplified in the movie Fargo, but definitely there.

Think of it this way: You probably played duck, duck, gray duck as a kid rather than play duck, duck, goose (that's the name of the game in the other 49 states). The peculiarities of the way Minnesotans talk, think, and act are not apparent until you move away. They are immediately apparent to someone who moves in.

According to wikipedia (standard caveats appy), here is "where the local accent is most similar to General American:"

According this article at pbs.com, http://www.pbs.org/speak/seatosea/standardamerican/,

The "unaccented" variety that is sometimes called Standard American or Standard Speech is one taught by accent coaches. This form is actually an idealized dialect - meaning, it's not really spoken anywhere, but instead is acquired through professional training. Actors and professional communicators (including some from the Midlands!) often take classes in "accent reduction" to lose any regional or social sounds in their speech. It takes a lot of work.​

 

[cbetanco]

The Spanish spoken in Mexico is considered a dialect of Spanish spoken in Spain. There are apparently even differences between the language as spoken by people in and from Mexico versus those who grew up with Spanish in the US.

Its still referred to as Spanish, not Mexican.