Where would I find what a gas breaks down into when it....

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the breakdown of gases into plasma and the resulting species present at different temperatures. Participants explore the relationship between temperature, dissociation, and ionization, as well as the challenges in finding comprehensive resources on the subject.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks information on the species present when a gas becomes plasma, specifically asking for resources that list these species for various gases and temperatures.
  • Another participant mentions tables of ionization energies and confirms that generally, lower temperatures lead to dissociation while higher temperatures lead to ionization.
  • A participant requests specific reactions for methane and questions whether there is a centralized resource for such information or if individual gases must be researched separately.
  • Concerns are raised about the difficulty in measuring or calculating the distribution of hydrocarbon species in equilibrium for methane under various conditions, indicating a lack of definitive data.
  • One participant expresses a need to compare plasma processes that dissociate gases to radicals with sonolysis processes, highlighting the uncertainty in knowing the species produced from gases in water.
  • A later reply questions the existence of tabulated information regarding the temperature at which dissociation transitions to ionization for different gases.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the relationship between temperature, dissociation, and ionization, but there is no consensus on the availability of comprehensive resources or definitive data regarding species distributions in plasma or equilibrium states.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the uncertainty surrounding the measurement and calculation of species distributions in plasma and the lack of centralized resources for specific gases and their breakdown products at varying temperatures.

rwooduk
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... becomes a plasma?

I am trying to find information on the species that will be present when a gas is broken down into a plasma for different types of gas and temperatures, is there a list somewhere, please could someone give me an idea of where I should look for this information?

Also am I correct in assuming that at lower temperatures there is disassociation and higher temperatures there is ionisation? And therefore there would be more radical species at lower temperatures and more chemical reactions in a reactive environment.

Thanks for any help on this, the plasma physics field is huge and having trouble figuring out where I would locate this information.
 
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rwooduk said:
where I should look for this information?
There are tables of ionization energies, JANAF, ICT, CRC.
rwooduk said:
at lower temperatures there is disassociation and higher temperatures there is ionisation?
Generally.
 
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Bystander said:
There are tables of ionization energies, JANAF, ICT, CRC.

Generally.

That's really helpful and thanks for confirming the general case!

What I really need are, for example for methane:

zbpstfZ.jpg

http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/pdf/10.1139/v75-516

Those reactions. Would there be a place where they are grouped or would I have to look up each gas individually?

Also the differences in products at different temperature i.e. at what temperature there would be ions instead of radicals (like the above) for different gases.
 
rwooduk said:
Those reactions. Would there be a place where they are grouped or would I have to look up each gas individually?
Welcome to the wonderful world of chemical thermodynamics. For the example you've picked, CH4, no one knows, nor has anyone measured, nor is anyone likely to ever be able to measure, or calculate, the distribution of hydrocarbon species in equilibrium for a system having a stoichiometry identical to that for methane (xC = 0.2, xH = 0.8). At ordinary conditions, methane is stable, and can be treated as a single component; at elevated T, P, or in the presence of catalysts, it is necessary to consider either the species population distributions of a two-component system, or a system of an unknown number of components and an unknown number of reactions among those components, the overall system composition still being equivalent to that of pure methane.
rwooduk said:
Also the differences in products at different temperature i.e. at what temperature there would be ions instead of radicals (like the above) for different gases.
The equilibrium species distributions are of course going to be functions of T, P, {Xi}.
 
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Bystander said:
Welcome to the wonderful world of chemical thermodynamics. For the example you've picked, CH4, no one knows, nor has anyone measured, nor is anyone likely to ever be able to measure, or calculate, the distribution of hydrocarbon species in equilibrium for a system having a stoichiometry identical to that for methane (xC = 0.2, xH = 0.8). At ordinary conditions, methane is stable, and can be treated as a single component; at elevated T, P, or in the presence of catalysts, it is necessary to consider either the species population distributions of a two-component system, or a system of an unknown number of components and an unknown number of reactions among those components, the overall system composition still being equivalent to that of pure methane.

The equilibrium species distributions are of course going to be functions of T, P, {Xi}.

ha thanks for the information. hmm this presents a problem, I am trying to compare plasma processes that disassociate different gases to radicals and sonolysis (the use of ultrasound cavitation) to do the same. Clearly the radicals from the water would be H⋅ and OH⋅, but then if I don't know what species will be given from the gas in the water how do I know how they will recombine? The best I can find is this:

xaBxFmy.jpg


Where I think M would be the species of the dissolves gas.

But anyway thanks again for your help!

edit so there is no table type information for temperature of when disassociation for a gas becomes ionisation?
 

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