News Who do you want to win (for non-Americans)

[Evo]

Ok, for all of the members that feel left out because they can't vote in the other poll, this poll is to see who non-Americans would choose for President. I know how much people like polls and I don't want to deprive anyone.

Actually I think it will be interesting to compare the two polls.

If you are voting in the registered voters only thread, please do not vote in this one.

 

[cristo]

I think I'll hazard a guess that Obama will win this hands down. After all, would the world be a safe place with Palin as president (in all but name)?

 

[Astronuc]

I want the American people to win.

Given those two choices - I have to go with Obama.

 

[GCT]

Ok, for all of the members that feel left out because they can't vote in the other poll, this poll is to see who non-Americans would choose for President. I know how much people like polls and I don't want to deprive anyone.

Actually I think it will be interesting to compare the two polls.

If you are voting in the registered voters only thread, please do not vote in this one.

With all due respect to Evo , hasn't this already been established? From what I know it's Obama ... big time , particulary in Europe.

 

[Evo]

With all due respect to Evo , hasn't this already been established? From what I know it's Obama ... big time , particulary in Europe.

Yes, but people complained about being left out of the other poll.

 

[Alfi]

Of five Canadians Plus myself, the quick vote for this room is 4 Obama, 2 McCain.

 

[Defennder]

I remember I had a Chinese friend I knew some years back out of high school. Upon hearing the news that Bush was re-elected in 2004, he smiled and said it was a good thing. I asked him why, and the answer he gave was "Well, given how terrible a president he is, all the better that he remains in power so that he'll lead the US to ruin."

So of course it's not true that non-US citizens would vote Obama. They might vote McCain, for very different reasons.

 

[nabki]

McCain. from what i have seen, he can be named bush 3rd.
i mean, what's to hate in bushes policy? since he came to power, our economy is stronger, we have more freedom, there's a lot of new foreign investments, our ties with our allies are stronger, corruption is being stamped out and all the old corrupt politicians have been replaced with more honest ones. what's not to like?

 

[cristo]

McCain. from what i have seen, he can be named bush 3rd.
i mean, what's to hate in bushes policy? since he came to power, our economy is stronger, we have more freedom, there's a lot of new foreign investments, our ties with our allies are stronger, corruption is being stamped out and all the old corrupt politicians have been replaced with more honest ones. what's not to like?

This could depend on what you mean by "we," but I think it's safe to say that none of what you've said is true!

 

[nabki]

This could depend on what you mean by "we," but I think it's safe to say that none of what you've said is true!

why not?

 

[p4poetic]

^Sarcasm.

 

[baywax]

Actually, I was looking forward to becoming a Canadian Insurgent prepared for when the Republicans invaded Alberta. The trick here is that once any US troops or tanks got to Edmonton, they'd drop into the horrendous slag pits of the oil sands, then be overcome by the toxic soup and fumes.

Did you know you have to burn 4 barrels of natural gas to make 1 barrel of the dirtiest oil on the market when you do it in Alberta? Did you know there's a 140 mile wide hole seeping into the 2nd largest watershed in the world because of our dependence on this fuel? Help.

I guess if you vote Palin in, she'll be concentrating on drilling the heck out of the National Parks in Alaska. That should distract them for a few years. Just enough time to cover the pits in Alberta with fake Tundra.

 

[Astronuc]

fake Tundra.

The Canadian version of astroturf. Well, as long as one can play golf on it, it should be just fine.

 

[baywax]

The Canadian version of astroturf. Well, as long as one can play golf on it, it should be just fine.

One of my in-laws bought rights to asphalt just after the 2ndWW. He may be missing his toes to frostbite from a bail out over Finland, but after paving all the runways in the prairies, he's a very rich man. Makes for interesting golf. You can always see the ball.

By the way, one analyst said the Tar Sands project is like turning Gold into Lead.

 

[Art]

McCain wouldn't be too bad but I prefer Obama and much more so with Palin on McCain's ticket as I see her as out and out dangerous.

Before being fully convinced by Obama I would like to know who Obama has in mind for key gov't posts if he becomes president? Anyone any ideas who is front bench is likely to be?

 

[Astronuc]

It would be interesting to see who are the principal advisors of McCain and Obama.

Phil Gramm was economics advisor to McCain until his comment about a 'nation of whiners'.

Jason Furman is Obama's chief economic adviser.
A somewhat critical article of Obama and Furman - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhill-fowler/jason-furman-and-barack-o_b_106926.html

 

[Moonbear]

I want the American people to win.

Given those two choices - I have to go with Obama.

I thought you were a US Citizen. Don't you belong over in the other poll?

 

[Andre]

I did not vote. Whoever wins, America looses at any rate. The ugly consequence of groupthink.

You need a third candidate, the one that goes for reality.

 

[Moonbear]

You need a third candidate, the one that goes for reality.

I agree! I voted in the other poll based on who I think is the stronger of the two candidates, but I really like neither. I'm giving serious consideration to a write-in choice this year, because neither candidate looks prepared for the reality of the next 4 years.

 

[Gokul43201]

I agree! I voted in the other poll based on who I think is the stronger of the two candidates, but I really like neither. I'm giving serious consideration to a write-in choice this year, because neither candidate looks prepared for the reality of the next 4 years.

Are you saying this year has worse candidates than in previous recent elections? Who would you say were some of the stronger candidates over the last few election cycles?

Most recent contenders: Bush II, Kerry, Gore, Clinton, Dole, Bush I, Perot, Dukakis

 

[Moonbear]

Are you saying this year has worse candidates than in previous recent elections? Who would you say were some of the stronger candidates over the last few election cycles?

Yes, there have been stronger candidates, at least since I've been voting. Not that they've necessarily won, but they were candidates I had more confidence in than these two clowns.

 

[Evo]

I thought you were a US Citizen. Don't you belong over in the other poll?

No Astronuc is un-American. He's not naturalized.

 

[Oberst Villa]

I thought you were a US Citizen. Don't you belong over in the other poll?

The US government thinks so too, but his superiors in the Russian secret service know better

Astronuc, I hope you don't mind the bad joke. You live in the US, but are from Australia, right ?

Ah, before I forget it: One German would-be vote for Obama.

 

[rootX]

Obama!

 

[Gokul43201]

Yes, there have been stronger candidates, at least since I've been voting. Not that they've necessarily won, but they were candidates I had more confidence in than these two clowns.

I'm curious which ones you feel were much stronger.

Related opinions from some other folks here:

Both Obama and McCain are probably the strongest candidates we've seen in my lifetime. Either would defeat any of the candidates the other party has put up in the past 30 years, with the possible exception of Reagan.

And in response to that post:

I agree. Whichever side wins, history is made.

This is looking to be the most fun election in my lifetime. I've never seen an election with two good candidates before. Usually, the only reason elections are close are because both candidates suck.

 

[LowlyPion]

Hazel Blears votes Obama:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080921014654.oudqyxrc&show_article=1

 

[Moonbear]

I'm curious which ones you feel were much stronger.

I think Gore was a strong candidate. I think he lost not because he wasn't qualified but simply because he had a rather dry personality so the voters who choose based on personality rather than qualifications couldn't "warm up" to him. I think in other elections, it wasn't so much that one candidate was better than the current ones so much as that one was clearly better than the other. In this one, the trouble I'm having is that they each are about half of what I want in a president, and the other half of their views that I disagree with or think are weaknesses on their part are not minor issues. In the past, when I've disagreed with my favored candidate on issues, they've been minor issues for me, ones that I could easily trade off for the major ones I did agree with them on.

Of course, the non-Americans have different priorities than Americans too. I can understand why non-Americans are going to favor Obama, because his positions on the war in Iraq, which is the one major international issue, are more consistent with international opinion. Non-Americans are not going to be as concerned with domestic policy...for that matter, the worse off the US economy is, the better it is for them. They both have major flaws in other areas...just they both fall on opposite sides of reality. For example, in terms of the economy, one is hopelessly idealistic about solutions that lack substance, while the other is completely clueless. Neither is within the realm of reality. But, maybe that's because people expect the president to fix these things that really should not be within the purview of government anyway...at least not unless we end up in another full-out depression and need a Teddy Roosevelt style rescue.

 

[Kurdt]

Interesting poll results if not very surprising.

 

[baywax]

I think Gore was a strong candidate. I think he lost not because he wasn't qualified but simply because he had a rather dry personality so the voters who choose based on personality rather than qualifications couldn't "warm up" to him. I think in other elections, it wasn't so much that one candidate was better than the current ones so much as that one was clearly better than the other. In this one, the trouble I'm having is that they each are about half of what I want in a president, and the other half of their views that I disagree with or think are weaknesses on their part are not minor issues. In the past, when I've disagreed with my favored candidate on issues, they've been minor issues for me, ones that I could easily trade off for the major ones I did agree with them on.

Of course, the non-Americans have different priorities than Americans too. I can understand why non-Americans are going to favor Obama, because his positions on the war in Iraq, which is the one major international issue, are more consistent with international opinion. Non-Americans are not going to be as concerned with domestic policy...for that matter, the worse off the US economy is, the better it is for them. They both have major flaws in other areas...just they both fall on opposite sides of reality. For example, in terms of the economy, one is hopelessly idealistic about solutions that lack substance, while the other is completely clueless. Neither is within the realm of reality. But, maybe that's because people expect the president to fix these things that really should not be within the purview of government anyway...at least not unless we end up in another full-out depression and need a Teddy Roosevelt style rescue.

I thought Gore lost because of some kind of screw up with the voting chads in Florida and the on-line voting machines. Almost as though someone had a brother in Florida to help with suppressing votes along with an army of techs figuring out how to skew the results.

 

[LowlyPion]

I can understand why non-Americans are going to favor Obama, because his positions on the war in Iraq, which is the one major international issue, are more consistent with international opinion.

Why the disconnect then with Domestic and Foreign perspective on the Iraq War?

Or are domestic opinion and International opinion both aligned and it's only the Republicans that are clinging to this strategy of invasion and occupation?

 

[Moonbear]

Why the disconnect then with Domestic and Foreign perspective on the Iraq War?

Or are domestic opinion and International opinion both aligned and it's only the Republicans that are clinging to this strategy of invasion and occupation?

Not a disconnect on the Iraq war, but that there are other issues that are important domestically, such as the economy, taxes, role of government in our personal lives, etc. The Iraq war is only one of many issues, it just happens to be the only international issue on the plate while all the other issues are domestic in nature.

 

[GCT]

Not a disconnect on the Iraq war, but that there are other issues that are important domestically, such as the economy, taxes, role of government in our personal lives, etc. The Iraq war is only one of many issues, it just happens to be the only international issue on the plate while all the other issues are domestic in nature.

Your arguments on why Obama is favored among the Europeans makes sense with the exception of your claims on them being ignorant about the economic situation , many Europeans are pretty savvy when it comes to this type of knowledge and they have a greater span in the history of politics ... I wonder if the poll -the one that was officially conducted recently - reveals why they had voted for Obama. Although this poll may actually reveal that you are right.

Note the recent issue of certain " whites " having certain stereotypes on " blacks " and why this could cost Obama the election ; I recently found this poll on Yahoo or Politico - seems that Europeans don't have an issue with this according to the poll , are the " blacks " in Britain a separate breed of some sort?

 

[cristo]

Non-Americans are not going to be as concerned with domestic policy...for that matter, the worse off the US economy is, the better it is for them.

I don't think this is true, anymore. The US economy is intertwined with that of the rest of the world to such an extent that it doesn't make sense for us to be wishing your economy ill. One simply needs to look at the current situation to see that.

 

[humanino]

Wir want ze governator to become ze president.

Most people abroad feel concerned about your pick. You do have a responsibility, if I may recall you, your previous choice had a serious influence on the life and death of many. Actually, I wonder how many non-american would consider themselves "highly concerned" compared to the total number of american voters.

Remember John Cleese's message last time ? To the citizens of the United States of America

 

[Andre]

I don't think I would have voted. Intuitively I'd vote democrat since they stand for what I support. But democrats are also much more susceptable to become victims of http://www.abacon.com/commstudies/groups/groupthink.html , which I can see now, has been the most disastrous shortcomings of mankind.

 

[Astronuc]

I thought you were a US Citizen. Don't you belong over in the other poll?

I am resident Alien who just happens to have an Australian passport. Personally, I don't recognize national borders, but I do realize all peoples' rights to live in peace and harmony with each other and Nature, and along with that security.

My wife and kids are American.

I'm just passing through.

 

[Astronuc]

The US government thinks so too, but his superiors in the Russian secret service know better

Astronuc, I hope you don't mind the bad joke. You live in the US, but are from Australia, right ?

Ah, before I forget it: One German would-be vote for Obama.

I've had some interesting interactions with quite a few Russians.

No Astronuc is un-American. He's not naturalized.

Un-naturalized

I have brought quite a bit of foreign exchange into the US.

 

[nabki]

i would like to know who is the other person who voted for mccain.
there are a few downsides to mccain becoming the next president. for instance, i will probably get drafted .

 

[vanesch]

Non-Americans are not going to be as concerned with domestic policy...for that matter, the worse off the US economy is, the better it is for them.

I certainly would not agree with that. Cristo's right: the economy in many places, and certainly in Europe, is suffering because of the (US) subprime crisis and aftershocks. If the US financial system collapses, then we're in big doodoo too. Of course, we're less concerned with minor issues of domestic policy (like exact tax policies and so on), that's only American's business.

I voted (of course) Obama, but I have to say that I'm not a big fan of him, there are a lot of things that disturb me about him. However, McCain, and especially since he took on that gun-totting woman as a deputy, looks to me as a totally disconnected senile grandpa. We've seen the consequences of a small light in the White House. In the beginning, we thought it was going to be funny. It wasn't. I think the rest of the world will be entirely able to live with a guy like Obama in the WH. I'm not sure we can do with a Bush-III.

 

[Alfi]

25 to 2 ( at time of writing )

I guess our little poll shows that the non-American opinion is not so 50/50 as the polls show the American opinion to be.

 

[Kurdt]

i would like to know who is the other person who voted for mccain.
there are a few downsides to mccain becoming the next president. for instance, i will probably get drafted .

Does that mean you're american and voted for McCain on the non-american poll?

 

[nabki]

nope.

 

[baywax]

I voted (of course) Obama, but I have to say that I'm not a big fan of him, there are a lot of things that disturb me about him.

I'm pretty sure we all have skeletons... in the closet. He is a fairly ruthless politician. So are football players (ruthless). I think it comes with the game.

 

[lisab]

I'm pretty sure we all have skeletons... in the closet. He is a fairly ruthless politician. So are football players (ruthless). I think it comes with the game.

Well he's definitely a skilled politician...after all, he beat the Clintons.

 

[baywax]

Well he's definitely a skilled politician...after all, he beat the Clintons.

Yes, skilled is the word! I saw Bill C. on Letterman last night. What an American! Almost makes me want to be one. Very thoughtful and all encompassing. You can see he's pushing to employ consilience to pull America out of any crisis. He said "people who bet against America always lose". He heh. At one time one of the cameras had this angle of him that made him look like a sculpture for the Clinton Memorial.

 

[vanesch]

I'm pretty sure we all have skeletons... in the closet. He is a fairly ruthless politician.

Oh, no, I like that. No, there's a feeling I have about Obama that makes him look a bit like Sarkozy in France: the "unkept promise". A brilliant campaign, full of good ideas etc... but once in power, confronted with the realities of the day-to-day political machine, business as usual.

I can't define it, but it is the same feeling as with the perfect car deal: a super car, with all the options, low consumption, high quality... for half the price than the competition. Even if everything looks ok, you tell yourself: there's something fishy about this deal.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

We can throw in some Obama votes from Brazil.
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=257441

 

[Astronuc]

Oh, no, I like that. No, there's a feeling I have about Obama that makes him look a bit like Sarkozy in France: the "unkept promise". A brilliant campaign, full of good ideas etc... but once in power, confronted with the realities of the day-to-day political machine, business as usual.

This seems to be a universal problem for those seeking national executive office in any country. The promises/goals expressed in the campaigns do not match up to the every day post-election reality.

 

[humanino]

Oh, no, I like that. No, there's a feeling I have about Obama that makes him look a bit like Sarkozy in France: the "unkept promise". A brilliant campaign, full of good ideas etc... but once in power, confronted with the realities of the day-to-day political machine, business as usual.

I have no idea how you can dare compare Obama to Sarkozy. They are not the slightest alike, I actually perceive them as opposite. You call Sarkozy's campaign brilliant, but I did not see that, for me he has never changed and has never had the size of the suit he his wearing now (I mean internal size ) Brilliant compared to Royal maybe, but Obama is brilliant even ignoring McCain. Anytime I see Sarkozy represent our country, I feel this must be a (bad) joke. He does not have a vision, he never had, he copies recipes... from the US ! When I hear Sarkozy, now in office, I do not hear intellectual honesty, I hear pleasant words for the understanding of the vast majority of voters : well that's not even true during his campaign for Obama.

 

[vanesch]

I have no idea how you can dare compare Obama to Sarkozy. They are not the slightest alike, I actually perceive them as opposite.

Yes, Sarkozy is much too far to the left to my taste, and my hope during his campaign was that this was not going to be so. I see Sarkozy as 100 miles to the left of Obama.

The promise I missed with Sarkozy was that finally we were going to get some more liberalism in France, but the failure I see is that he backs down, as has any other politician in France, to the leftish syndicalism and "returns to the state will solve it all for you" mentality.

I thought his campaign was around: "you want it, you work for it", but we see again "Mr. statesman that will solve all your troubles for ya" - while he clearly can't, as no politician can. I thought that this was the change he would have brought about: "the state is not responsible for your well-being, only for creating the possibility for you to serve your own well-being", but no. We're back to the good old "I'll solve it for ya". He backed away from about all his promises during his campaign, because each time there were some protests, and he can't stand that. He backed away from total autonomy for the universities (with my hope that this would be the first step towards privatizing education in France), he backed away from opening up the market for competition with taxis, notaires, pharmacies, ... , he backed away from opening up the market totally for supermarkets,... and now he wants to increase purchase power of the people - that's about the last thing a politician should be involved with! If you look at him, you almost see Chirac bis, but without the stature.