Why does a photomultiplier tube produce a negative output pulse?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Lizard
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Output Pulse
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the output characteristics of photomultiplier tubes (PMTs), specifically addressing why the output waveform is a negative pulse. The scope includes technical explanations and circuit design considerations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants explain that the negative pulse is due to the photo-cathode and multiplier dynodes being at a negative potential relative to the anode, with the anode current being converted to a voltage by a grounded resistor.
  • Others note that the electrons are negative, which contributes to the negative output pulse.
  • One participant suggests that it is possible to design a circuit where the pulse is positive, indicating that the PMT is just one element in a larger circuit.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the choice of ground potential can affect the output, and mentions historical context regarding the development of PMTs.
  • There is a reference to the invention of PMTs and a discussion about the implications of using grounded cathodes in circuit design.
  • A participant comments on the significance of the bias voltage established in the circuit and how it relates to the negative charges produced by the PMT.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the reasons behind the negative output pulse, with some agreeing on the role of electron charge and circuit design, while others propose alternative circuit configurations that could yield a positive pulse. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various circuit configurations and historical developments related to PMTs, indicating that the discussion may depend on specific assumptions about circuit design and biasing methods.

Lizard
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
The standard output waveform of a photomultiplier tube has a "negative" pulse, like below. Why is the amplitude negative?
Example-of-an-acquired-waveform-of-the-PMT-output-and-the-electric-signal-induced-on-the.png
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Show the surrounding circuitry.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71, Twigg and Vanadium 50
And the electrons are negative !
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: sophiecentaur
hutchphd said:
And the electrons are negative !
Best answer so far. :wink:
 
sophiecentaur said:
Best answer so far
I think @phinds was better. It's not impossible to design a circuit where the pulse is positive, even though the electrons are negative. A PMT is but one element in a circuit.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71 and phinds
Agreed but, pour a load of electrons on something and its Potential will go in the negative direction. The OP was a bit too simple, of course, but electrons are at the coal face, here.
 
  • Haha
Likes   Reactions: hutchphd
hutchphd said:
And the electrons are negative !
The conventional current flows from ground, down through the current to voltage resistor to the anode. That is why the pulse is negative.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: sophiecentaur
Vanadium 50 said:
A PMT is but one element in a circuit.
But it does make a practical difference where ground potential is chosen. These were developed in the 1930's. I think I'll stick with door #1...
 
  • #10
hutchphd said:
But it does make a practical difference where ground potential is chosen. These were developed in the 1930's. I think I'll stick with door #1...
I have used a PMT tube with grounded cathode as part of a TV camera. But grounded cathode not useful for DC outputs referenced to ground.
I think the PMT concept was invented by Philo Farnsworth as part of his Image Dissector TV camera.
 
  • Like
  • Informative
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71 and hutchphd
  • #11
Hamamatsu says PMTs were invented by Iams et al. in 1935 and the modern multidynode tubes in 1936 by Zworykin.

As far as the negative signal, had it been positive and someone said, "oh, it's common to have an odd number of inverting amplifiers in the base", we all would have nodded sagely.
 
  • Haha
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71
  • #12
When I nod sagely it means I've dozed off...just give me a little jab..
 
  • Haha
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71
  • #13
I took the clue for the 'no output' level of zero. The question wording refers to the tube itself afaics. It's clearly been connected into a circuit that establishes a bias voltage of 0V. Then, along come the negative charges.
 

Similar threads

Replies
19
Views
3K
Replies
26
Views
5K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
5K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
8K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K