Why Does Minimizing the Action Describe the Path of a System?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of the action in physics, particularly in the context of Hamilton's Principle and the Lagrangian formulation of mechanics. Participants explore the physical interpretation of the action, its mathematical formulation, and historical context, while questioning why minimizing the action leads to the path that a system takes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the physical meaning of action and why minimizing it corresponds to the path chosen by nature.
  • Another participant suggests that the action can be viewed as a weighted sum over all possible configurations in energy-space, leading to the solution of the Euler-Lagrange equations.
  • A non-scientific perspective is offered, anthropomorphizing nature as "lazy," suggesting that nature chooses the path with the least kinetic energy and the most potential energy.
  • Historical context is provided, tracing the principle of least action from Fermat's principle of least time through Maupertius and Euler to Lagrange and Hamilton.
  • Participants discuss the importance of variational calculus in the development of these principles.
  • Some participants seek alternative resources for understanding the topic, indicating that links provided may not be functioning.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the interpretation of the action or the reasons behind its minimization. Multiple viewpoints and interpretations are presented, reflecting ongoing uncertainty and exploration of the topic.

Contextual Notes

Some statements rely on assumptions about the nature of energy and the mathematical framework of mechanics. The discussion does not resolve the complexities of the historical development of these concepts or their implications in modern physics.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in the foundations of classical mechanics, the historical development of physical principles, and those seeking to understand the philosophical implications of action in physics may find this discussion valuable.

epsilonjon
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Hi,
so today in maths we defined the Lagrangian as L = T-V and stated Hamilton's Principle, which says that the actual path of a conservative system is the one which minimises the action

A(q)=\int^{t_{2}}_{t_{1}}L dt.

I'm a bit confused about this. What does the action represent in physical terms? Also, why on Earth would minimising the integral of L=T-V result in the path which nature 'chooses'? How did Hamilton come up with this and why do we think it works (other than the fact it agrees with experiments!)?

Many thanks :D
 
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that is a postulate!

:)

just as the postulates of special relativity

the action is integral over time of the Lagrangian, nothing more nothing less.. it can be viewed as a weigthed sum over all possible configurations in energy-space, the path nature "choose" is the one that minimizes the action, i.e. the solution for the Euler-Lagrange equations
 
Try this - it's probably the best explanation you will find.

http://decision.csl.illinois.edu/~yima/psfile/ECE553/FeynmanLecturesOnPhysicsChapter2-19.pdf
 
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epsilonjon said:
why on Earth would minimising the integral of L=T-V result in the path which nature 'chooses'? ... (other than the fact it agrees with experiments!)?
Warning: this is a non-scientific answer, but since you specifically exclude experiment I get the impression that you want a non-scientific answer.

Basically, that action is minimized by nature being lazy (anthropomorphizing). If nature can go from A to B in a variety of ways then the way it chooses is the one where it has the least kinetic energy and the most potential energy. Lazy. Think of throwing a baseball up. It spends as much time as high (most PE) and as slow (least KE) as possible.
 
If you read up on the history of this principle, you'll find that the principle of minimizing action has an interesting story. It starts way back with Fermat proposing that light, as a ray, follows a path of least time.

Then, later in the 1700s, Maupertius introduced a theorem at the time which was the earliest predecessor of the principle of least action. Based on Fermat's principle, he proposed that particles follow a path such that the product of the mass times the velocity times the distance would be minimized. This didn't always work and didn't get as much attention back then.

Much later, after Euler developed variational calculus, Lagrange applied this theory to mechanics. Hence the resulting equation of minimizing action is called the Euler-Lagrange equation. Following him, Hamilton worked on mechanics too, writing what is now known as Hamilton's Least Action principle. The rest is what you see before you in a math class. For a more detailed version of the history, look the science book discussion forum. You'll find lots of interesting links there. Have fun!
 
The link given by Phyzguy is not working. Is there an alternate?
 
Ch. 19 of Feynman's Lectures (vol. 2)

patrickd said:
The link given by Phyzguy is not working. Is there an alternate?
It's just http://www.scribd.com/doc/6007778/Feynman-Lectures-on-Physics-Volume-2#outer_page_224" .
 
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