Why don't hydrogen ions have osmotic activity in living organisms?

  • #1
Max123
7
1
Why hydrogen ions dont have osmotic activity in living organisms?
 
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  • #2
Though I am not good at chemistry, I think hydrogen ion, i.e. proton and proton-neutron core, pass the semipermeable membrane including ones in living organism. Why not ?
 
  • #3
anuttarasammyak said:
Though I am not good at chemistry, I think hydrogen ion, i.e. proton and proton-neutron core, pass the semipermeable membrane including ones in living organism. Why not ?
Hydrogen ion is positevely charged so they can’t pass the membrane
 
  • #4
Do you mean any postive charged ions cannot pass membrane or hydrogen ion only ?
 
  • #5
I think any charged particles cant pass the membrane on its own without some mechanism of transport
 
  • #6
So your question seems why only neutral atoms and molecules pass the membrane ? I say it in logic. I do not know the facts.
 
  • #7
anuttarasammyak said:
So your question seems why only neutral atoms and molecules pass the membrane ? I say it in logic. I do not know the facts.
My question is why hydrogen ions arent osmotically active in water solutions
 
  • #8
Max123 said:
My question is why hydrogen ions arent osmotically active in water solutions

Are you sure they aren't?

Also: what is the pH range of solutions involved? What are related H+ concentrations? What are osmotic pressures related to these concentrations?

And what are typical osmotic pressures related to other ions/substances?

Max123 said:
I think any charged particles cant pass the membrane on its own without some mechanism of transport

A bit too broad statement for my liking, as it depends on the ion and the membrane, but to some extent yes - cell walls are built to be mostly impenetrable.

To some extent that means you are asking "why cars don't get pass the roadblock put there to not allow cars to get through" :wink:
 
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  • #9
Borek said:
Are you sure they aren't?

Also: what is the pH range of solutions involved? What are related H+ concentrations? What are osmotic pressures related to these concentrations?

And what are typical osmotic pressures related to other ions/substances?



A bit too broad statement for my liking, as it depends on the ion and the membrane, but to some extent yes - cell walls are built to be mostly impenetrable.

To some extent that means you are asking "why cars don't get pass the roadblock put there to not allow cars to get through" :wink:
Well I actually got my answer already from my professor st university and the reason H+ arents osmotically active is that they are immediately binding to water and comprise H3O+ ion and thus they dont increase a concentration of particles in water
 
  • #10
Max123 said:
Well I actually got my answer already from my professor st university and the reason H+ arents osmotically active is that they are immediately binding to water and comprise H3O+ ion and thus they dont increase a concentration of particles in water
Then have you known osmotic behaviour of H3O+ ion, which could cease your question ?
 
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  • #11
Max123 said:
Well I actually got my answer already from my professor st university and the reason H+ arents osmotically active is that they are immediately binding to water and comprise H3O+ ion and thus they dont increase a concentration of particles in water

Double-edged explanation, if they bind to water molecules, they lower amount of free water so the concentration of everything goes up.

As I was trying to suggest with my questions above: my bet is that they are osmotically active, just in typical conditions (pH somewhere between 5-8) this effect is masked by other ions/substances, present in much higher concentrations.
 
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  • #12
Borek said:
Double-edged explanation, if they bind to water molecules, they lower amount of free water so the concentration of everything goes up.

As I was trying to suggest with my questions above: my bet is that they are osmotically active, just in typical conditions (pH somewhere between 5-8) this effect is masked by other ions/substances, present in much higher concentrations.
 
  • #13
Well, my professor said thst H3O+ behaves exactly like water and doesnt increase osmolality
 
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