Why is static friction necessary for pure rolling?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the necessity of static friction for pure rolling motion of a cylinder on a horizontal surface, particularly contrasting it with kinetic friction. Participants explore the conditions under which pure rolling occurs and the role of friction in transitioning from sliding to rolling motion.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a scenario where a cylinder with initial translational velocity and zero angular velocity experiences kinetic friction, which decreases translational velocity and increases angular velocity until pure rolling is achieved.
  • Another participant asserts that once pure rolling is achieved, there is no need for friction, suggesting that static friction is not necessary for maintaining pure rolling.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that static friction should accelerate an object starting from zero velocity relative to the surface more effectively than kinetic friction, referencing a car burn out as an example.
  • Another participant argues that while static friction is not "necessary," it becomes the relevant frictional force once rolling without slipping is achieved, as the surfaces have zero relative motion at that point.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of static friction for pure rolling. Some argue it is essential, while others contend it is not necessary once pure rolling is achieved. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants do not reach consensus on the role of static versus kinetic friction in pure rolling, and the discussion highlights various assumptions about the conditions of motion and the definitions of friction types.

tbn032
Messages
34
Reaction score
7
Suppose a cylinder is launched on a horizontal frictional surface such that it has initial translational velocity v and zero angular velocity .the kinetic friction would be applied between the contact points of the cylinder and the surface, opposite to the direction of the translational motion. This kinetic frictional force will simultaneously apply torque on the cylinder (which will increase its angular velocity) and decrease the translational velocity till the cylinder satisfy the condition for pure rolling(V=RW).when the condition for pure rolling is satisfied, the relative velocity between the contact points and surface would be zero and this there would be static friction between the contact points and the surface.

My confusion is that why is static friction necessary for pure rolling instead of kinetic friction. Static friction is applied when the object satisfies the condition for pure rolling(V=RW). The static friction does not increase or decrease, both translational and angular velocity. Kinetic friction on the other hand ensures that the object follows the condition for pure rolling on a horizontal frictional surface.

According to my understanding, if an object is launched on a frictionless surface such that it initially satisfies the condition for pure rolling, then the object would continue to be in pure rolling motion even in the absence of static friction(static friction=0 because µ=0), thus the static friction is not necessary for pure rolling. But if an object is launched on a frictionless surface such that it initially does not satisfy the condition for pure rolling, then the motion of the object would not be transformed into pure rolling due to absence of kinetic friction. Can you explain that why is the static friction is called to be necessary for pure rolling of an object instead of kinetic friction?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
tbn032 said:
Suppose a cylinder is launched on a horizontal frictional surface such that it has initial translational velocity v and zero angular velocity .the kinetic friction would be applied between the contact points of the cylinder and the surface, opposite to the direction of the translational motion. This kinetic frictional force will simultaneously apply torque on the cylinder (which will increase its angular velocity) and decrease the translational velocity till the cylinder satisfy the condition for pure rolling(V=RW).
Yes.
tbn032 said:
when the condition for pure rolling is satisfied, the relative velocity between the contact points and surface would be zero and this there would be static friction between the contact points and the surface.
There is no need for friction when pure rolling is achieved.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Kashmir and topsquark
tbn032 said:
Can you explain that why is the static friction is called to be necessary for pure rolling of an object instead of kinetic friction?
If the object is starting from zero velocity respect to the surface, static friction should accelerate it quicker than kinetic friction.
Think of a car doing a burn out: acceleration is greater without smoke.
 
Lnewqban said:
If the object is starting from zero velocity respect to the surface, static friction should accelerate it quicker than kinetic friction.
Think of a car doing a burn out: acceleration is greater without smoke.
I don't see how this is relevant.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: topsquark
tbn032 said:
Can you explain that why is the static friction is called to be necessary for pure rolling of an object instead of kinetic friction?
It is not "necessary". But once rolling without slipping has been achieved, the surfaces will (ideally) have zero relative motion within the contact patch. Static friction is then a more apt description of the interaction between the two surfaces. If the frictional force across the interface subsequently exceeds the maximum imposed by the coefficient of static friction then the two surfaces will "break loose" and slipping will resume.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Lnewqban

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
5K
  • · Replies 37 ·
2
Replies
37
Views
4K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K