Why is there no negative sign in the Faraday's Law stated here

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the presence or absence of a negative sign in Faraday's Law of electromagnetic induction, particularly in relation to Lenz's Law. Participants explore the implications of this sign in the context of voltage, electric potential difference, and the direction of induced currents. The conversation includes theoretical considerations and interpretations of established laws in electromagnetism.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that textbooks and resources like Wikipedia and Hyperphysics include a negative sign in Faraday's Law, referencing Lenz's Law.
  • One participant argues that "voltage" should denote only the absolute value of electric potential difference, which can be positive or negative, and suggests that the negative sign in Faraday's Law is unnecessary for indicating direction.
  • Another participant draws an analogy between the negative sign in Faraday's Law and Hooke's Law, stating that the direction of induced current is sufficient to convey the necessary information without a negative sign.
  • A later reply emphasizes that using the term "voltage" in connection with Faraday's Law is contradictory, asserting that there is no potential when time-varying magnetic fields are present, and that the negative sign is crucial for consistency in electromagnetic theory.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity and interpretation of the negative sign in Faraday's Law. There is no consensus on whether the negative sign is essential or if the direction of induced current suffices to convey the intended meaning.

Contextual Notes

Some participants reference past discussions on voltage and its relationship to Faraday's Law, indicating a history of debate on this topic. The conversation highlights the complexity of definitions and interpretations in electromagnetism.

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Summary:: Figure b also shows that there is no negative sign in Faraday's Law. How do I know when to include the negative sign?

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I was under the impression that the term "voltage" is used exclusively to denote the absolute value of the electric potential difference which can be positive of negative. For example, when we say that "the voltage across a capacitor is charge divided by capacitance", all three quantities are positive. In my mind, voltage is to potential difference as distance is to displacement.

I agree that the negative sign in Faraday's law is put there for Lenz's law. It indicates that the induced potential difference is such that it gives rise to an induced current that opposes the proposed change in magnetic flux. I view it as analogous to the negative sign in Hooke's law that indicates that the direction of the force exerted by the spring opposes the proposed deformation of the spring. The direction of an arrow in a free body diagram says it all and a minus sign is not needed. In fact, it would be wrong to label an arrow representing the force due to a spring by "-kx". Similarly, the direction of the induced current in a circuit says it all and a minus sign is not needed.

I remember having this conversation about voltage here at PF a number of years ago, but I could not find the link.
 
kuruman said:
I remember having this conversation about voltage here at PF a number of years ago, but I could not find the link.
Is this the "conversation" you were thinking of?
Faraday law of electromagnetic induction

 
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kuruman said:
I was under the impression that the term "voltage" is used exclusively to denote the absolute value of the electric potential difference which can be positive of negative. For example, when we say that "the voltage across a capacitor is charge divided by capacitance", all three quantities are positive. In my mind, voltage is to potential difference as distance is to displacement.

I agree that the negative sign in Faraday's law is put there for Lenz's law. It indicates that the induced potential difference is such that it gives rise to an induced current that opposes the proposed change in magnetic flux. I view it as analogous to the negative sign in Hooke's law that indicates that the direction of the force exerted by the spring opposes the proposed deformation of the spring. The direction of an arrow in a free body diagram says it all and a minus sign is not needed. In fact, it would be wrong to label an arrow representing the force due to a spring by "-kx". Similarly, the direction of the induced current in a circuit says it all and a minus sign is not needed.

I remember having this conversation about voltage here at PF a number of years ago, but I could not find the link.
Just don't use the word "voltage" in connection with Faraday's law, because it's a contradiction in itself. There is no potential when time-varying magnetic fields are present due to Faraday's law:
$$\vec{\nabla} \times \vec{E}=-\partial_t \vec{B},$$
and the minus-sign is of course crucial for the entire consistency of electromagnetic theory.
 
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