Why is there no Star Wars thread yet?

In summary, the conversation starts off with a discussion about the lack of a Star Wars thread and the release date of the new movie. The conversation then turns to a debate about the importance of Luke and the Jedi in defeating the Empire, with some users expressing disappointment in the story's ending. The conversation also touches on the role of the Ewoks in the final battle and debates about the effectiveness of the Emperor's plans. Overall, the conversation shows differing opinions on the significance of certain characters and plot points in the Star Wars franchise.
  • #1
russ_watters
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Why is there no Star Wars thread yet?!

http://www.starwars.com/

May 19, 2005. You have all seen the full trailer, right...?
 
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  • #2
Oh yeah.

I just have a hard time getting too excited about it because I know it's going to have the same crappy acting the last two had.

P.S. Darth Maul kicks the crap out of Vader any day.
 
  • #3
Pff starwars. I know I will not be seeing it. I saw the last few a while back just to understand some references and I thought the movies were not very good at all.
 
  • #4
I agree somewhat. The first was an extended kids show. The second was a bit better, but the whole love affair plot line was brutal. The best part of the three is the way things are revealed as to what happened. That's the context I keep them in.
 
  • #5
May 19th?

Why not on International Star Wars Day like usual?
 
  • #6
Since a Star Wars thread has opened up, I must rant about my dissatisfaction with Return of the Jedi:

The 2nd Death Star would have been destroyed (killing Vader and the Emperor) whether or not Luke was there. Luke is of 0 importance (to the Rebellion) after A New Hope. Why all the hype over Luke's importance? At the end, no jedi were needed to defeat the Empire.
 
  • #7
learningphysics said:
Since a Star Wars thread has opened up, I must rant about my dissatisfaction with Return of the Jedi:

The 2nd Death Star would have been destroyed (killing Vader and the Emperor) whether or not Luke was there. Luke is of 0 importance (to the Rebellion) after A New Hope. Why all the hype over Luke's importance? At the end, no jedi were needed to defeat the Empire.
Because it isn't Luke who is the returning Jedi; the one who returns/redeems himself as a Jedi is Anakin Skywalker.
The six Star Wars episodes chronicle the rise/fall/return of that Jedi.
That, at any rate, is my interpretation of the cycle, so I'm very excited about this new movie where the fall is going to happen..
EDIT:
The Ewoks, however, were almost as bad as Jar-Jar Binks..
 
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  • #8
arildno said:
Because it isn't Luke who is the returning Jedi; the one who returns/redeems himself as a Jedi is Anakin Skywalker.
The six Star Wars episodes chronicle the rise/fall/return of that Jedi.

But Star Wars isn't just about personal redemption. There is the matter of defeating the Empire and the Emperor and succeeding in the rebellion. My point is that in this regard the Jedi turn out to be unimportant (beyond the first film). Vader's killing of the Emperor was unnecessary - yes it redeems him, and brings him to the light side. But with regards to the larger problem, it was unnecessary. The Emperor would have died anyway when the death star exploded.

It really diminishes everything that Obiwan said about Luke being their last hope. At the end Jedi were not needed to defeat the Empire.
 
  • #9
Hey! Don't make fun of the Ewoks! They actually helped defeat the Empire! They turn out to be more important than Luke or Vader!
 
  • #10
learningphysics said:
But Star Wars isn't just about personal redemption.
Says who?
The two figures who remain throughout the six movies are Palpatine and Anakin Skywalker.
The hero falls to the wiles of the villain, and only at the end is he able to redeem himself.
There is the matter of defeating the Empire and the Emperor and succeeding in the rebellion.
The Empire isn't forged yet in the first two movies.
The Emperor would have died anyway when the death star exploded.
Who knows how that old vampire could have turned the tables if Vader hadn't rebelled at last?
We'll never know..
(And besides, just because old Palpy made a long fall, can we really be sure he's gone for good?)

PS:
I like it when others have wildly diferring views than my own on a cycle of movies I love.
I hope I haven't offended you by opposing your own views with mine..:smile:
 
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  • #11
learningphysics said:
Hey! Don't make fun of the Ewoks! They actually helped defeat the Empire! They turn out to be more important than Luke or Vader!
WHAT?
You're actually an Ewok-fan?
I am dismayed..
 
  • #12
arildno said:
WHAT?
You're actually an Ewok-fan?
I am dismayed..

What is wrong with you??

Granted, Lucas's brain has turned to rocks since the 1970s, midichlorians alone prove that, but the ewoks were great!
 
  • #13
arildno said:
WHAT?
You're actually an Ewok-fan?
I am dismayed..

lol! Yes, I do like the Ewoks. However I was mainly just trying to make a point about ROTJ, and how the story doesn't end right. The way the story finishes, Ewoks turn out more important than Jedi.
 
  • #14
franznietzsche said:
What is wrong with you??

Granted, Lucas's brain has turned to rocks since the 1970s, midichlorians alone prove that, but the ewoks were great!
The next I'll hear is that Jar-Jar Binks was great too, I suppose..
 
  • #15
learningphysics said:
lol! Yes, I do like the Ewoks. However I was mainly just trying to make a point about ROTJ, and how the story doesn't end right. The way the story finishes, Ewoks turn out more important than Jedi.
I agree that if you regard "A new hope" as the first episode in the cycle, then the ending in ROTJ don't make too much sense.
However, George Lucas had the whole cycle drafted back in the 70's, but had to release the most dramatic episode(s) first.
He didn't have the means to finance his own movies back then.
 
  • #16
Isn't there something kind of weird amiss, when an Emperor who had the smarts to deceive millions and get control of an entire galaxy, has his plans foiled by a bunch of cute teddy bears? :eek:
 
  • #17
learningphysics said:
Vader's killing of the Emperor was unnecessary - yes it redeems him, and brings him to the light side. But with regards to the larger problem, it was unnecessary. The Emperor would have died anyway when the death star exploded.
You can't assume that they would have been able to destroy the Death Star without killing the emperor. The power of your will is another one of the main themes.
 
  • #18
I knew it was due out sometime this year, but hadn't heard much about it yet. Russ, I think it's a bigger deal to our generation than to these younger folks here. I can't wait! I just hope they don't screw it up with too much mushy love scene stuff like the last one. Once they're all out, I want to do a Star Wars marathon weekend and watch all 6! :biggrin:
 
  • #19
arildno said:
I agree that if you regard "A new hope" as the first episode in the cycle, then the ending in ROTJ don't make too much sense.
However, George Lucas had the whole cycle drafted back in the 70's, but had to release the most dramatic episode(s) first.
He didn't have the means to finance his own movies back then.

I think the real test of the saga will be when a new generation watches it in chronological order (episode 1 - 6).

I wonder if it will work for them.
 
  • #20
learningphysics said:
Isn't there something kind of weird amiss, when an Emperor who had the smarts to deceive millions and get control of an entire galaxy, has his plans foiled by a bunch of cute teddy bears? :eek:
He was foiled by Vader's rebellion; you do not know what tricks Palpatine had up in his sleeve.
Vader turning against him completely surprised him; it's been a few years since I saw ROTJ, but as far as I remember, the Emperor wasn't particularly worried that the rebels might actually succeed.
 
  • #21
russ_watters said:
You can't assume that they would have been able to destroy the Death Star without killing the emperor. The power of your will is another one of the main themes.

Hmmm. I'm hearing this a lot. Don't you think it needed to be explored in the movie? Nothing in the film indicates to me that the Emperor's will was influencing the space battle. Even a single line would have been enough.

It seems to me like a vital detail that Lucas just skipped over.
 
  • #22
learningphysics said:
I think the real test of the saga will be when a new generation watches it in chronological order (episode 1 - 6).

I wonder if it will work for them.
I think you're right on that.
Besides, I think you'll agree that episode 3 will be absolutely crucial in determining the fate of the series.
If they don't manage to make Anakin's fall convincing, the whole story will fall apart and be regarded as an artistic failure, whatever financial success it's going to be.
 
  • #23
One question is that of the rating. If it is "too scary" for kids, how many people will go see it? Or...as usual, will people go see it because of this controversy?
 
  • #24
russ_watters said:
You can't assume that they would have been able to destroy the Death Star without killing the emperor. The power of your will is another one of the main themes.
I fully agree.
I am reminded of the episode in "The Empire Strikes Back" where Yoda tries to convince Luke that the size of an object to be influenced by the force is irrelevant (i.e, that he should be able to lift the spacecraft from the mire).

Palpatine as the Sith-equivalent of Yoda might well have been able to unleash horrendous powers to turn the battle (that's my view, at least..)
 
  • #25
Informal Logic said:
One question is that of the rating. If it is "too scary" for kids, how many people will go see it? Or...as usual, will people go see it because of this controversy?
Well, if Lucas turns this film into a kiddie movie as well, then I will at least CONTEMPLATE murder..
 
  • #26
Informal Logic said:
One question is that of the rating. If it is "too scary" for kids, how many people will go see it? Or...as usual, will people go see it because of this controversy?

I was only 7 or 8 (I think...can't remember exactly what year it was anymore) when the first Star Wars film came out, and that one was considered "too scary" for kids too, but it didn't stop many from seeing it (I'm pretty sure I was the ONLY kid not allowed to see it in the theater. )
 
  • #27
learningphysics said:
Hmmm. I'm hearing this a lot. Don't you think it needed to be explored in the movie? Nothing in the film indicates to me that the Emperor's will was influencing the space battle. Even a single line would have been enough.

It seems to me like a vital detail that Lucas just skipped over.
"Everything is proceeding as I have forseen it."

That's not just a vision he had, he planned the course of history in advance. Luke's and Lea's (and, yes, the Ewok's) triumph over him were not separate events, but two halves of the same whole. Had the two of them not separately defeated the emperor's plan, the space battle would have been an irrelevancy.
arildno said:
Palpatine as the Sith-equivalent of Yoda might well have been able to unleash horrendous powers to turn the battle (that's my view, at least..).
My take is that his powers are even stronger than that. Its a bit like in the Matrix - when you're ready, you won't have to [use your power to destroy a starship] it'll happen on its own because you have forseen it.

edit: also, while in EP4, Luke and Vader go directly against each other in the space battle, in EP6, Luke is going after the big dog and the big dog doesn't need to fly a tie fighter to beat you.
 
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  • #28
arildno said:
The next I'll hear is that Jar-Jar Binks was great too, I suppose..


Uh...no.

What is it with people making me look like a nice guy these days?
 
  • #29
russ_watters said:
"Everything is proceeding as I have forseen it."

That's not just a vision he had, he planned the course of history in advance. Luke's and Lea's (and, yes, the Ewok's) triumph over him were not separate events, but two halves of the same whole. Had the two of them not separately defeated the emperor's plan, the space battle would have been an irrelevancy.
Note also who return as the sole winner in Episodes 1&2: Palpatine.
While some of his allies suffer grievous setbacks, he himself has planned for that eventuality and consolidates and strengthens his own position.
In fact, just about the only event we can be absolutely certain he did not plan for, was Vader's rebellion.
You can't really count Luke's development as a setback for Palpatine; he KNEW a strong Jedi would appear to oppose him, and Palpatine was winning against Luke.

Thus, as I see it, Palpatine suffers really one, and only one defeat: Vader's rebellion..
 
  • #30
This is actually the deepest Start Wars discussion I've ever had. Me and my dvd player are going to need to spend some quality time together this weekend...
 
  • #31
russ_watters said:
This is actually the deepest Start Wars discussion I've ever had. Me and my dvd player are going to need to spend some quality time together this weekend...
I guess as long as it's not a Maytag...? :-p
 
  • #32
Now that I think about it, considering how easily Luke was able to leave the Death Star in time... I see that the Emperor probably wouldn't have died unless Vader had finished him. He'd have evacuated the Death Star like Luke did.

I was wrong! Sorry. :blushing:
 
  • #33
One thing also regarding Luke's importance is an assumed role of restarting the Jedi tradition. Since he was the only one left, it's all up to him. I like Arlindo's view of what Palpatine knew and didn't. I can remember quite a few times he and Vader both saying Luke was doing exactly what he had forseen.
 
  • #34
SOS2008 said:
I guess as long as it's not a Maytag...? :-p

Well, unless Russ invites us over to watch Star Wars (I vote we all crash his place, invited or not; I bet he's got a killer sound system!), you'll be able find me in the laundry room. :biggrin:
 
  • #35
Star Wars suck.. .Star Wars this Star Wars is bad blah blah..a bunch of elitist fools. I didn't watch Star Wars to find the meaning of life, nor to ruminate on the existential dilemna of the post-impressionist painters. It's fun, It's entertaining, I enjoyed it.

The third one looks to have much more depth to it as far as the storyline goes. And I believe the climactic lightsaber battle will be the mother of all lightsaber battles. And Yoda gets to fight again as well.
 
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