Why the kinetic energy is same as internal energy of ideal gas?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between kinetic energy and internal energy in ideal gases, exploring the assumptions of no interactions between gas molecules and the implications for potential energy. It also touches on the use of root mean square (rms) speed versus average speed of gas molecules.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that in an ideal gas, the absence of interactions between molecules implies that potential energy is zero, leaving only kinetic energy as a form of energy.
  • Others question how the lack of interaction leads to zero potential energy, seeking clarification on the definition of potential energy in this context.
  • One participant notes that the internal energy of an ideal gas includes not only kinetic energy but also rest energy and potential energy due to gravity, which are often negligible.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of intermolecular forces, explaining that even neutral atoms can exert forces on each other when they come close, leading to non-zero potential energy, referencing van der Waals forces.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of no interactions in ideal gases and the nature of potential energy, indicating that multiple competing views remain without a consensus.

Contextual Notes

Limitations in the discussion include assumptions about ideal versus real gases, the definitions of potential energy, and the conditions under which these energies are considered negligible.

Hardik Batra
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Why the kinetic energy is same as internal energy of ideal gas?
 
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In an ideal gas (that we regularly study), there is assumed to be no interactions between the gas molecules. No interactions means no potential energy, so the only form of energy left is kinetic.
 
Another question. Why are we use rms speed of gas molecules rather than average speed of gas molecules?
 
Matterwave said:
In an ideal gas (that we regularly study), there is assumed to be no interactions between the gas molecules. No interactions means no potential energy, so the only form of energy left is kinetic.

for ideal gas P.E.=0
No interaction means no potential energy how?
 
Hardik Batra said:
No interaction means no potential energy how?

Potential energy is defined in terms of an interaction force, specifically a conservative force.
$$V(P) = - \int_{P_0}^P {\vec F \cdot d \vec r}$$
 
jtbell said:
Potential energy is defined in terms of an interaction force, specifically a conservative force.
$$V(P) = - \int_{P_0}^P {\vec F \cdot d \vec r}$$

Potential energy for ideal gas is zero.
But what is the potential energy for real gas. how the potential energy of real is changing?
I don't get it from the equation? Could you explain by words?
 
Hardik Batra said:
Why the kinetic energy is same as internal energy of ideal gas?

The internal energy of an ideal gas also includes the rest energy of the particles and the potential energy due to gravity but these energies are usually constant or negligible.
 
When two atoms or molecules come very close to each other, they exert small electrical forces on each other. Even though each atom or molecule has zero net charge, their charge distributions become distorted so that the net force between them becomes nonzero. For a simple example, two electric dipoles can exert forces on each other even though they each have zero net charge. This force is associated with a potential energy as per the equation above.

For more details, try searching for "van der Waals force" and "van der Waals potential".
 

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