Will BP's Top Kill Procedure Stop the Gulf Oil Spill?

[Glennage]

I don't know, I find his crying cheap and sleezy to get voters to side with him. Crying is not the appropriate reaction for someone in his position . Can you imagine if all the politicians started crying and leaving the room every time something happens?

I don't believe it matters what position you are in. He is a Human, and that's it. It's an emotional time, the whole Economy of that area could be gone, it's a massive disaster.

Maybe it's just personal preference, but I find him to be genuine, and deeply upset about "His" home, "His" area, ruined, and gone.

 

[Cyrus]

I don't believe it matters what position you are in. He is a Human, and that's it. It's an emotional time, the whole Economy of that area could be gone, it's a massive disaster.

Maybe it's just personal preference, but I find him to be genuine, and deeply upset about "His" home, "His" area, ruined, and gone.

A leader is supposed to lead by example. Literally running out of a room crying does absolutely nothing to solve the problem. He should be busy making sure there is pressure on BP to do things correctly and in a timely matter, that's what his job is. Also, we still don't know the long term assessment of the damages yet. So, well have to see how the recovery goes.

I don't recall the Mayor of Louisiana crying during Katrina (unless I am failing to recall correctly). Nor is bobby Jindal, the governor crying about the oil spill right now.

 

[Glennage]

A leader is supposed to lead by example. Literally running out of a room crying does absolutely nothing to solve the problem. He should be busy making sure there is pressure on BP to do things correctly and in a timely matter, that's what his job is. Also, we still don't know the long term assessment of the damages yet. So, well have to see how the recovery goes.

I don't recall the Mayor of Louisiana crying during Katrina (unless I am failing to recall correctly). Nor is bobby Jindal, the governor crying about the oil spill right now.

There is already TONS of pressure on BP - And not just from normal people, but the President of the United States himself, who has openly expressed his feelings and attitude towards BP.

I think your missing the point that the guy is just upset.

 

[jreelawg]

It must be tough for BP to pour so much money and effort into full court behind the back through the legs hooks shots trying to get this thing plugged. But they have to try and try even if it seems impossible.

Let's just hope they don't screw up drilling the relief well.

 

[HeLiXe]

Does anyone know how far below the surface the well is?

Bad wording...I meant how far beneath the ocean floor the well is.

 

[Cyrus]

There is already TONS of pressure on BP - And not just from normal people, but the President of the United States himself, who has openly expressed his feelings and attitude towards BP.

I think your missing the point that the guy is just upset.

No, I get the point. What I'm saying is that -as a leader- he should be calm, cool, collected, and poised.

 

[Glennage]

No, I get the point. What I'm saying is that -as a leader- he should be calm, cool, collected, and poised.

Correct, but he is HUMAN.

 

[Glennage]

Take a look at this for Oil Damage...

http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/?subset=USA7.2010147.aqua.1km"

 

[Geigerclick]

No, I get the point. What I'm saying is that -as a leader- he should be calm, cool, collected, and poised.

I don't care if he wets himself on the podium, I care about the oil and dispersants in the gulf, and what seems to be a harsh Atlantic hurricane season incoming. I'd cry too. I suppose we're not used to our leaders having functional consciences and a sense of loss, we're too used to borderline psychopaths. If Glenn Beck can weep on command, I can live with someone facing the death of the ecosystem in and around their district choking up.

Ugly: http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/28/gulf.oil.environment.disaster/index.html?hpt=Sbin

 

[Evo]

Take a look at this for Oil Damage...

http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/?subset=USA7.2010147.aqua.1km"

Where is the oil damage?

http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/?subset=USA7.2010147.aqua.721.1km

There is some oil that has reached some marshland, but it appears that the oil problem is still out in the gulf where it is affecting wildlife.

This just in a few minutes ago

And on Friday, he interrupted a Memorial Day weekend stay with his family at their Chicago home for the Gulf visit, with his first stop a beach where absorbent booms and sandbags have been laid for miles to try to keep more oil from washing ashore.

No oil could be seen in the water during Obama's helicopter ride from New Orleans, over Louisiana bayous, to Port Fourchon down the coast from Grand Isle.

That changed when he arrived at Fourchon Beach, however.

A shirt-sleeved Obama walked to the water's edge, stooping as Adm. Thad Allen of the Coast Guard explained what he was seeing.

The beach, sealed off with crime-scene-style yellow tape, is one of the few sandy stretches on Louisiana's coast, where most is marshland. Obama called reporters traveling with him to the water's edge and picked up a few pebble-sized tar balls. No other oil was visible.

"These are the tarballs that they're talking about," he said. "You can actually send out teams to pick up as they wash on shore.

It has a video.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100528/ap_on_bi_ge/us_obama_gulf_oil_spill

 

[mheslep]

I think it's fair to say, this isn't going to work, or it's failed already.

Based on what? Just the amount of time taken by the process so far?

combined with tons of toxic mud. Nice.

Would you have a reference by chance on the toxicity of the 'mud'?

 

[Geigerclick]

Based on what? Just the amount of time taken by the process so far?

Would you have a reference by chance on the toxicity of the 'mud'?

From what I understand it takes at least 100 hours to finish the mud portion of the top kill, so calling it a failure now cannot be supported; Glennage is clearly mistaken.

The drilling mud is nasty stuff however:

http://news.discovery.com/tech/how-bps-top-kill-will-work-we-hope.html
http://www.formatebrines.com/

Water or oil based, it usually contains Barite, or Cesium.

Hayward stated they are using a water base, which means that it is likely this mud:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3962099.html

It's nasty stuff, but compared to at least 11 million gallons of crude and over 600 thousand of dispersants, if it works, it would be worth it. If not, it'a 50,000+ pounds of toxic and sometimes mildly radioactive mud.

 

[Geigerclick]

Where is the oil damage?

http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/?subset=USA7.2010147.aqua.721.1km

There is some oil that has reached some marshland, but it appears that the oil problem is still out in the gulf where it is affecting wildlife.

This just in a few minutes ago


It has a video.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100528/ap_on_bi_ge/us_obama_gulf_oil_spill

Here is damage, tourism is drying up where there is no oil yet! If a hurricane does drive it inland, you'd think people would want to enjoy this region NOW. That is real harm to people, albeit not of an environmental variety.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I don't know, I find his crying cheap and sleezy to get voters to side with him. Crying is not the appropriate reaction for someone in his position . Can you imagine if all the politicians started crying and leaving the room every time something happens?

Nothing like this has ever happened. It is now officially the biggest environmental disaster in US history. The Congressman from La. is a man watching his home being destroyed. If I were him, I'd probably be in tears as well.

Obama is a rock. Back in '08, even when his campaign was in big trouble and his staff was panicking, Obama was like ice.

Edit: I'm confused. Who did you mean; whose crying? T. Boone Pickens?

 

[Argentum Vulpes]

... If not, it'a 50,000+ pounds of toxic and sometimes mildly radioactive mud.

I hope you realize that the drilling mud itself is not radioactive. If it dose get a radiological signature it is because of radioactive isotopes and elements that it picks up from the bore hole. In other words the radiation is natural, because we live on a hot planet.

 

[zomgwtf]

Nothing like this has ever happened. It is now officially the biggest environmental disaster in US history. The Congressman from La. is a man watching his home being destroyed. If I were him, I'd probably be in tears as well.

Obama is a rock. Back in '08, even when his campaign was in big trouble and his staff was panicking, Obama was like ice.

Edit: I'm confused. Who did you mean; whose crying? T. Boone Pickens?

Pretty sure he's talking about Rep. Melancon. No?

I can completely see why he would be crying, just because you're a 'leader' of sorts doesn't negate the fact that you are human with human emotions. Some people can handle the worst enviromental disaster happening in their backyard while they have to constantly make public appearances and even get blamed at times, most people I would feel can't take this much though.

 

[mheslep]

...

Water or oil based, it usually contains Barite, or Cesium.

Hayward stated they are using a water base, which means that it is likely this mud:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3962099.html

It's nasty stuff, but compared to at least 11 million gallons of crude and over 600 thousand of dispersants, if it works, it would be worth it. If not, it'a 50,000+ pounds of toxic and sometimes mildly radioactive mud.

Most all of the elements are found naturally in seawater including the radioactive ones. It appears the polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH) compounds added to the mud are the particularly toxic part.

 

[magpies]

Nothing like this has ever happened. It is now officially the biggest environmental disaster in US history.

Ya it has about the same thing happened in the 60's <--*ok 80's*...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ixtoc_I

I mean it's not exactly the same but pretty much...

 

[xxChrisxx]

Ya it has about the same thing happened in the 60's...

Not to the magnitude, nor the depth of the current spill.

 

[zomgwtf]

So just wondering. What sort of legal implications will this have on BP? Not just in the states but on the international stage. I feel that these people should be tried publicly and clearly found guilty for this disaster and not properly being prepared to meet a worst case scenario. I mean they keep saying 'they don't know' about EVERYTHING that's going on here because 'it's never been done before' at those depths. Well if they didn't know anything then they never should have meddled around in it in the first place.

I think that'll set a pretty good precedent? Who knows what their punishment should be though. I say we hang 'em after they pay for everything to get cleaned up and pay for all the damages done. WHO'S WITH ME?


EDIT: Actually if you look at the link provided to the Ixtoc I oil spill you can see that they avoided paying compensation and the like because of 'sovereign immunity'. In my mind they should have be charged at an international level, whether they wanted to or not. This is a criminal act in my mind.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Pretty sure he's talking about Rep. Melancon. No?

I can completely see why he would be crying, just because you're a 'leader' of sorts doesn't negate the fact that you are human with human emotions. Some people can handle the worst enviromental disaster happening in their backyard while they have to constantly make public appearances and even get blamed at times, most people I would feel can't take this much though.

It has been interesting to watch the seven stages of grief play out. Personally, I have reached acceptance. BP may have killed the gulf. We can only hope that it won't be as bad as it might be. BP still hasn't announced that the top kill has failed, so maybe there is even hope for that yet.

•Shock or Disbelief
•Denial
•Bargaining
•Guilt
•Anger
•Depression
•Acceptance

 

[xxChrisxx]

So just wondering. What sort of legal implications will this have on BP? Not just in the states but on the international stage. I feel that these people should be tried publicly and clearly found guilty for this disaster and not properly being prepared to meet a worst case scenario. I mean they keep saying 'they don't know' about EVERYTHING that's going on here because 'it's never been done before' at those depths. Well if they didn't know anything then they never should have meddled around in it in the first place.

Historically the only way you progressed was by acitvely doing new things. If we never tired anything before becuase 'it's never been done before. Progress would halt. This would have been reviewed and safety checked about a zillion times before it was put into operation. There are ALWAYS unforseen circumstances.

There were clearly procedural errors, production should never have commenced after the warnigns and pressure failures. Whoever gave the go ahead after the pressure failure is guilty of negligance. Those are the only people you can bring to a criminal trial.

HOWEVER! The outcome of this should not be to punish individuals. The idea is not to get retribution or revenge, it's to make sure this can never happen again. I don't agree with the sentiment of 'heads should roll' as it does not serve any useful purpose.

BP should be made to pay for the spillage clearup, loss of earnings of people affected and be made to provide ALL data on this to the public for a review.

 

[mheslep]

Not to the magnitude,

Did you look at the link provided for Ixtoc 1? 3,000,000 barrels over nine months. Ixtoc was far larger than this Obama - Minerals Management Service - British Petroleum - Deep Water Horizon spill (so far). It just doesn't get credited as a 'US' spill, being a Mexican rig, even though large portions of the spill ended up on Tx beaches.

 

[Geigerclick]

Most all of the elements are found naturally in seawater including the radioactive ones. It appears the polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH) compounds added to the mud are the particularly toxic part.

Oil seepage is found naturally in seawater, along with gypsum. Cyanide is natural, that doesn't make a large quantity of it mixed with oil very healthy. Anyway, my point is that it is certainly toxic, but less so than dispersants or crude.

Argentum: Of course I'm aware of that, I didn't say that that it was enriched with tritium and cobalt. I believe the information I linked to speaks for itself, and that it shows the mud is nothing terrible, and certainly I would rather handle that than the dispersants that have been used.

 

[xxChrisxx]

Did you look at the link provided for Ixtoc 1? 3,000,000 barrels over nine months. Ixtoc was far larger than this BP DWH spill (so far). It just doesn't get credited as a 'US' spill, being a Mexican rig, even though large portions of the spill ended up on Tx beaches.

That's a good point. That's still the largest, but it's not a comparable spill to DWH.

EDIT: Ivan's post below was what I was going to put in the edit.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Ya it has about the same thing happened in the 60's <--*ok 80's*...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ixtoc_I

I mean it's not exactly the same but pretty much...

That was a completely different situation as the oil never approached land - only tar balls. The rig was farther out at sea, and most of the oil went north and dissipated. Also, I would have to check the numbers as so much has changed, but I believe that was a slower leak. Rate, location, ocean currents, and wind, all play significant roles in determining the damaged caused by a spill. This is is attacking or threatening the heart of the gulf - the breeding grounds.

Also, that wasn't in the US. Those were considered to be Mexican waters.

Citing the size of the spill only has meaning as a function of rate. Again, a billion barrel spill over a billion years wouldn't be a problem either.

 

[zomgwtf]

That was a completely different situation as the oil never approached land. The rig was farther out at sea, and most of the oil went north and dissipated. Also, I would have to check the numbers as so much has changed, but that was a slower leak. Rate, location, ocean currents, and wind, all play significant roles.

i read it effected over 200km of coastline... hmmmmm

 

[Geigerclick]

Historically the only way you progressed was by acitvely doing new things. If we never tired anything before becuase 'it's never been done before. Progress would halt. This would have been reviewed and safety checked about a zillion times before it was put into operation. There are ALWAYS unforseen circumstances.

There were clearly procedural errors, production should never have commenced after the warnigns and pressure failures. Whoever gave the go ahead after the pressure failure is guilty of negligance. Those are the only people you can bring to a criminal trial.

HOWEVER! The outcome of this should not be to punish individuals. The idea is not to get retribution or revenge, it's to make sure this can never happen again. I don't agree with the sentiment of 'heads should roll' as it does not serve any useful purpose.

BP should be made to pay for the spillage clearup, loss of earnings of people affected and be made to provide ALL data on this to the public for a review.

When all of the damage over decades is added up, do you really believe that our government is capable or willing to get that kind of money? If these undersea plumes and bacterial activity create anoxic or hypoxic regions far larger than those already present, BP could be liquidated and it wouldn't be enough.

What people forget I see, is that we elected the officials who were willing to drill at 5000' without a meaningful plan A to recover from catastrophic failure. Our government, our desire and need for oil, which I do not see changing. From what I can see, the scope of the damage to life in the gulf ranges from some hypoxic regions and lowered populations, to "DOOOOM". There is just no good reference for this, or for what is going to happen when a hurricane drives this inland through sewers, the water table, and more. This could be just another in a line of over hyped disasters, or we could trigger extinctions. The bottom line is that that we have no choice but to wait and see.

Given that, how is our government going to do anything meaningful when they won't even begin skimming, and are in no position to gainsay BP's experts? I feel badly for fishermen, but they are the very small tip of this iceberg.

 

[xxChrisxx]

When all of the damage over decades is added up, do you really believe that our government is capable or willing to get that kind of money? If these undersea plumes and bacterial activity create anoxic or hypoxic regions far larger than those already present, BP could be liquidated and it wouldn't be enough.

I really don't know what would be the best course of action. As ecomically you can't just kill off one of the largest oil companies in the world, yet you can't just let them get away with a measly 'cop out' sum.

I remember the same thing happening when the Valdez spill happened. Exxon kept it in the courts for decades (I think there are still apeeals going to now).

I'm just glad it's not me who has to decide what to do. As it's a case of you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. The backlash no matter what happens will be immense.

Someone was mentioning to me something about a remote valve that they didn't have, but I'm not really too sure what that's about.

What people forget I see, is that we elected the officials who were willing to drill at 5000' without a meaningful plan A to recover from catastrophic failure.

The thing is, no one conceived of this type of blowout to be a possiblity, as it simply shouldn't happen. There are multiple safety redundancies before we get to this stage and they were ignored.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Historically the only way you progressed was by acitvely doing new things. If we never tired anything before becuase 'it's never been done before. Progress would halt. This would have been reviewed and safety checked about a zillion times before it was put into operation. There are ALWAYS unforseen circumstances.

This was nothing but simple greed overwhelming common sense. The only lesson to be learned is that industry is irresponsible, dangerous, reckless, and not to be trusted. But what is most disheartening is to see that some people don't get it. It makes me sick to see people constantly making excuses when this was entirely preventable. In Norway, they require that a relief well be drilled in parallel with the primary well. That way, they don't have to wait three months before stopping a leak in a situation like this. Why should we have to pass legislation for BP, or any oil company, to use common sense? There is only one answer: They can't be trusted.

First the recklessness and greed of the financial markets nearly destroyed the world economy. Now BP may have killed the gulf, and still we hear rationalizations and excuses being made for them by the victims. This is insane!

This almost strikes me as something akin to Stockholm Syndrome.