Will it float or will it crunch?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Wesl14384
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Float
AI Thread Summary
An oil drum will crunch if emptied of all matter, and if released at the edge of space without kinetic energy, it is unlikely to float due to its weight exceeding the buoyancy of air. To achieve floating, a structure would need to be both strong and light, likely requiring a spherical design rather than a cylindrical one. A vacuum balloon could potentially float if constructed with a spherical support like an octet truss, allowing for an evacuated outer membrane that avoids tension until the balloon is ready. The discussion highlights the challenges of creating a stable, lightweight structure that can withstand external pressures without collapsing. Ultimately, the feasibility of such a design remains questionable.
Wesl14384
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
An oil drum will crunch if all matter is taken out. If you empty an oil drum at the edge of space, ceal it, and release it (without kinetic energy so no escape velocity), wil it float somewhere in the atmosphere? Or will it crunch and fall on the earth? Is it possible to create a stucture strong enough and light enough that when all trapped air is sucked out, will start to float instead of crunch?
 
Engineering news on Phys.org
Welcome to PF.

The density of air at 15°C and Sea Level is 1.225 kg/m2.
An oil drum has a volume of 200 litres, so to float it would have to weigh less than 1.225 * ( 200 / 1000 ) = 245 gram.
It is unlikely that you could make a drum that would float without crushing. It is far more probable that an empty container that floats in air would be a sphere.

A soap bubble has tension in the membrane so it is stable. Compression in the surface of a very thin shell will result in buckling and collapse if any asymmetric forces are applied.

To build a vacuum balloon you will need to fabricate a spherical support from a space frame having thickness, such as an octet truss. Then collapse the external membrane onto that support. The outer cover should not be in tension until the balloon is evacuated as that would subject the truss to an unnecessary compressive force. That will require two quite different materials for the truss and the skin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geodesic_dome
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_frame
 
  • Like
Likes sawan and Wesl14384
Not quite what you asked about but perhaps of interest..

 
  • Like
Likes Wesl14384
Hi all, I have a question. So from the derivation of the Isentropic process relationship PV^gamma = constant, there is a step dW = PdV, which can only be said for quasi-equilibrium (or reversible) processes. As such I believe PV^gamma = constant (and the family of equations) should not be applicable to just adiabatic processes? Ie, it should be applicable only for adiabatic + reversible = isentropic processes? However, I've seen couple of online notes/books, and...
I have an engine that uses a dry sump oiling system. The oil collection pan has three AN fittings to use for scavenging. Two of the fittings are approximately on the same level, the third is about 1/2 to 3/4 inch higher than the other two. The system ran for years with no problem using a three stage pump (one pressure and two scavenge stages). The two scavenge stages were connected at times to any two of the three AN fittings on the tank. Recently I tried an upgrade to a four stage pump...

Similar threads

Back
Top