Writing numerals in the U.S. How do *you* do it?

[Geezer]

Perhaps this is more of a poll...

How do you write your numerals in the U.S.?

1. My ones are European-esque if the 1 is to stand alone (that is, if it's not a 1 that's going to be in the middle of an unambiguous number, then it will have a hook and a base...but if it's smack in the middle of a larger number, say, 3.14159, then I go with the American stray line that looks like | ).

2. My sevens are crossed.

3. Twos never have a loop in them (I was taught this by my algebra instructor years ago, so as to distinguish 2 from the cursive Q...you know, way back when when you had to write in cursive...). To distinguish my 2 from a Z, I always cross my Z.

4. There's no rhyme or reason to my fours. Sometimes the top comes together to make a triangle, other times it's the box four that most Americans prefer.

5. As with 1, if a 0 is to stand alone, I'll cross it (though diagonally so it doesn't look like theta).

What conventions do you adhere to?

 

[Pengwuino]

Hmmm, interesting.

1) I never write "1" alone unless it is part of a number. I was always taught that you write the numbers 0-10 (or maybe it was 0-100) out like "zero, one, two, three". GOD that makes me realize it has been SO long since I really wrote something out that was not in a physics context where the person will never misinterpret a 1 for an I if left alone.

2) I have never ever seen anyone do this. Is this common in Europe?

3) I also never put curves on my 2s and TRY to put crosses on my Zs as it makes me feel more confident that it won't be misinterpreted.

4) I like the box 4. It's kinda funny how we see the triangle 4 and the little curly thing at the bottom of a 9 SO often on printed text, but when I actually write the numbers out, it is never with the triangle or the bottom curve on the 9. I suppose it's subconscious time-saver.

5) Again, I write 0s down.

The real hilarious/confusing moments are when people write down things using the greek alphabet. I have a professor whose \psi looks like a \phi because when he draws the curve in Psi, he goes left to right but then loops around to the top center with his pencil/chalk still kinda on the paper/board and finishes by drawing the vertical line straight down. So you get this kinda 3/4 circle with the line down the middle that starts looking like Phis.

 

[lisab]

Perhaps this is more of a poll...

How do you write your numerals in the U.S.?

1. My ones are European-esque if the 1 is to stand alone (that is, if it's not a 1 that's going to be in the middle of an unambiguous number, then it will have a hook and a base...but if it's smack in the middle of a larger number, say, 3.14159, then I go with the American stray line that looks like | ).

2. My sevens are crossed.

3. Twos never have a loop in them (I was taught this by my algebra instructor years ago, so as to distinguish 2 from the cursive Q...you know, way back when when you had to write in cursive...). To distinguish my 2 from a Z, I always cross my Z.

4. There's no rhyme or reason to my fours. Sometimes the top comes together to make a triangle, other times it's the box four that most Americans prefer.

5. As with 1, if a 0 is to stand alone, I'll cross it (though diagonally so it doesn't look like theta).

What conventions do you adhere to?

1. I never use a serif on a one, just a vertical line. Well, something close to vertical.

2. I almost always cross my sevens, even though it's very uncommon in the us.

3. Twos nearly always have a loop; Z is never crossed. I don't remember the last time I saw a cursive Q !

4. Fours are boxes. The horizontal line crosses the vertical line a little bit.

5. I used to cross my zeros but that disappeared over the years.

In general my writing is messy.

 

[Borek]

2) I have never ever seen anyone do this. Is this common in Europe?

Not sure about whole Europe, in Poland in handwriting not crossed 7 is... not 7.

Crossed Z is more problematic, as one of letters from Polish alphabet can be written either as crossed z or z with a dot above (ż).

 

[jtbell]

Not sure about whole Europe, in Poland in handwriting not crossed 7 is... not 7.

In Germany at least, a 7 without a crossbar is a 1, which always has a large serif. The crossbar is what distinguishes a 7 from a 1.

Although my 1's are always simple more-or-less vertical lines, I do cross my 7's. I picked up the habit from my wife, who teaches German.

2 - no closed loop at the top. [added: I also cross my z's]

4 - open top with right angles.

When there's a danger of ambiguity (as in programming-language code) I slash my zeroes, put top and bottom serifs on capital I's, and write lower-case L as a loop.

 

[Jack21222]

To disambiguate the number 1 and the lower case L (l), I don't change my 1, rather, I change my l into a script l. So, my 1 remains a vertical line, and my l becomes a loop.

 

[turbo]

When I was in engineering school, I had really clean, neat penmanship due to the required drafting courses. I'd turn in homework and tests with numerals that were almost suitable for blueprints. Now, my penmanship is sloppy, my signature is an indecipherable scrawl, and I have to pay attention to my numerals when writing checks to avoid misinterpretation.

 

[jhae2.718]

0- context specific, if programming, I'll throw a slash through
1- vertical line
2- no loop
4- triangular
7- with a line through it
l- script l
z- with a line through it

 

[Geezer]

When there's a danger of ambiguity (as in programming-language code) I slash my zeroes, put top and bottom serifs on capital I's, and write lower-case L as a loop.

I totally forgot about this! Yes, I do this, too, with capital I's and lower case L's.

 

[KingNothing]

How in the world do you make a 2 without a curve, that doesn't look like a Z? Sure you make cross a Z, but that doesn't disambiguify a 2 by itself.

Also, I write in arial font, about size 12.5. My characters are defined by bezier curves, and I draw them exactly correct every time.

 

[jhae2.718]

I prefer to write everything in Computer Modern. :)

 

[ideasrule]

I write in hex 63.F% of the time.

 

[lisab]

How in the world do you make a 2 without a curve, that doesn't look like a Z? Sure you make cross a Z, but that doesn't disambiguify a 2 by itself.

Also, I write in arial font, about size 12.5. My characters are defined by bezier curves, and I draw them exactly correct every time.

If your 2 doesn't loop, you have to cross your z.



That sentence sounds odd.

 

[KingNothing]

If your 2 doesn't loop, you have to cross your z.

That sounds atrocious. In other words, it invites ambiguity by taking a would-be-unique character and makes it look like another character.

 

[lisab]

That sounds atrocious. In other words, it invites ambiguity by taking a would-be-unique character and makes it look like another character.

Ha, yes it does! That's kind of what adding a top serif to 1 does, too. Then it can look like an uncrossed 7.

 

[Ben Niehoff]

1. Vertical line unless alone, then sometimes serif'd
2. Never with a loop
4. Always open, to distinguish it from 9
7. Always crossed
0. Just normal. Looks the same as O. I don't use O in math.
I,J. Always with horizontal parts; I, to distinguish it from l and 1, J, because it looks nice.
l. Always script-l when in math formulas.
Z. Always crossed.
\Theta. Always with serifs on the middle bar, to distinguish it from \theta

 

[KingNothing]

Ha, yes it does! That's kind of what adding a top serif to 1 does, too. Then it can look like an uncrossed 7.

Wow, somehow this knowledge has really ruined my day.

 

[lisab]

Wow, somehow this knowledge has really ruined my day.

Oops, that wasn't my intent ! Was your day already sort of precarious?

 

[KingNothing]

Oops, that wasn't my intent ! Was your day already sort of precarious?

I wasn't being totally serious.

 

[m0bius]

1 - just a line if it's part of a number, the hook/base version if it's alone.
2 - non loop
4 - box
7 - crossed, I'm not sure why I started doing it or why it's even done in the first place
0 - usually uncrossed
z - crossed

 

[Astronuc]

My handwriting is rather poor. I used to get C's and D's in handwriting in elementary school.

Since I studied German many years ago, I adopted the practice of writing [strike]7[/strike].

I generally write sans serif. I'm a writing minimalist. I write with a minimum of vertical movement, so sometimes my writing is unintelligble to others, and sometimes to myself.

I find cursive very difficult


And I never write my signature the same way.

 

[I like Serena]

My handwriting is rather poor. I used to get C's and D's in handwriting in elementary school.

Since I studied German many years ago, I adopted the practice of writing [strike]7[/strike].

I generally write sans serif. I'm a writing minimalist. I write with a minimum of vertical movement, so sometimes my writing is unintelligble to others, and sometimes to myself.

I find cursive very difficult

So do you use modern computer typewriting in communicating mathematical formulas?

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

No slash in the 0.
Vertical line for 1.
No loop in the 2.
Squarish 4.
No cross in the 7.
Two circles for an 8.

 

[Astronuc]

So do you use modern computer typewriting in communicating mathematical formulas?

Equations I can write fairly well. But I tend to use TeX, Word equation or Mathcad for writing equations/models.

 

[I like Serena]

½, ∜, ⅶ, ��, ℑ, ��, ℓ, ℤ, ��, etcetera:

with plain text, Latex, Word, Excel, WolramAlpha, Mathcad as seems appropriate.

I'm not saying what I use on my scratch pad - I prefer to let no one see that .

[edit]Note that plain text is not suitable for all symbols [/edit]

 

[gb7nash]

Whenever I write something that's alphanumeric, I always cross the 0's and write 1's with a serif. Otherwise, I don't.

 

[DaveC426913]

I always understood that a crossed 7 was French.

For me, as with geezer, a standalone one has serif.
Zeros are crossed if there's any ambiguity.
No loop in my 2s.
4s are closed.

 

[KingNothing]

Why the heck do you people not put a loop in the 2? This just absolutely boggles my mind!

 

[I like Serena]

Why the heck do you people not put a loop in the 2? This just absolutely boggles my mind!

From wikipedia (where else) in: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_handwriting_variation

"The numeral 2 — In Germany and Austria a "curly" version used to be taught and is still used by many in handwriting. The 2 can be confused with a capital script Q, or a letter Z."

Are you from Germany or Austria?

 

[jhae2.718]

I'm a chronic LaTeX-er.

 

[KingNothing]

From wikipedia (where else) in: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_handwriting_variation

"The numeral 2 — In Germany and Austria a "curly" version used to be taught and is still used by many in handwriting. The 2 can be confused with a capital script Q, or a letter Z."

Are you from Germany or Austria?

No. How does "2" get confused with "Q"? I write them just like your computer probably displays them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_(number)#Evolution_of_the_glyph

 

[Mororvia]

I used to loop my 2's until I got into classes with partial derivatives.

 

[lisab]

I'm a chronic LaTeX-er.

That's a *lot* better than being a late chronic-er.

 

[Geezer]

No. How does "2" get confused with "Q"? I write them just like your computer probably displays them.

http://kolahun.typepad.com/kolahun/images/2008/04/28/cursive_q.gif" 's the cursive Q I was taught.

 

[lisab]

http://kolahun.typepad.com/kolahun/images/2008/04/28/cursive_q.gif" 's the cursive Q I was taught.

Me too...but seriously, when was the last time you met one in the wild?

I don't think I could write one without peeking, if I hadn't looked at your link !

 

[KingNothing]

http://kolahun.typepad.com/kolahun/images/2008/04/28/cursive_q.gif" 's the cursive Q I was taught.

Wow, cursive sucks! It had its place in the days before printing and typing, its going the way of the dodo now.

But why would someone rather have ambiguity with capital Z than cursive uppercase Q? The tradeoff does not make sense. I urge all of you to see the light.

Wait - are you guys talking about the loops themselves, as in the enclosures that totally encompass some area?

 

[Dembadon]

Here are mine:

 

[Geezer]

Here are mine:

Yeah, that's pretty much how I write, too.

 

[Borek]

Here are mine:

Strange, I can read them, but I always write at different angle - about 90 deg CCW.

 

[BobG]

0 - with a slash if in mixed company, naked otherwise
1 - vertical line
2 - with a loop
4 - open boxed
7 - crossed
8 - single continuous movement
9 - straight tail
z - crossed when used as a variable
l - more an italicized 'l' than a cursive 'l'; no loop, but with a tail to the right


In fact, Jimmy just mentioning that he uses double circles for 8's made me cringe. As irrational as it may be, watching someone do double circles (or double eyeballs) for 8's just drives me up a wall. I think that in a past life, my lover must have sucked my eyeballs out and nailed them to the front of her house as part of her address.

Twos never have a loop in them (I was taught this by my algebra instructor years ago, so as to distinguish 2 from the cursive Q...you know, way back when when you had to write in cursive...). To distinguish my 2 from a Z, I always cross my Z.

I just have a hard time imagining how context could ever result in confusing a 2 with a cursive Q, even back in the days when cursive writing was common. Are there any words that begin with qq?

 

[lisab]

0 - with a slash if in mixed company, naked otherwise
1 - vertical line
2 - with a loop
4 - open boxed
7 - crossed
8 - single continuous movement
9 - straight tail
z - crossed when used as a variable
l - more an italicized 'l' than a cursive 'l'; no loop, but with a tail to the right


In fact, Jimmy just mentioning that he uses double circles for 8's made me cringe. As irrational as it may be, watching someone do double circles (or double eyeballs) for 8's just drives me up a wall. I think that in a past life, my lover must have sucked my eyeballs out and nailed them to the front of her house as part of her address.



I just have a hard time imagining how context could ever result in confusing a 2 with a cursive Q, even back in the days when cursive writing was common. Are there any words that begin with qq?

2uite right!

 

[Dembadon]

[...] Are there any words that begin with qq?

None of which I'm aware, however:

QQ =

 

[I like Serena]

http://kolahun.typepad.com/kolahun/images/2008/04/28/cursive_q.gif" 's the cursive Q I was taught.

Me too...but seriously, when was the last time you met one in the wild?

I don't think I could write one without peeking, if I hadn't looked at your link !

Well, this wild cursive Q of yours, it could either be a capital Q, or a lower case q - which is it? It can't be a 2, because it has a loop in it.

 

[I like Serena]

2uite right!

 

[BobG]

Wow, cursive sucks! It had its place in the days before printing and typing, its going the way of the dodo now.

But why would someone rather have ambiguity with capital Z than cursive uppercase Q? The tradeoff does not make sense. I urge all of you to see the light.

Wait - are you guys talking about the loops themselves, as in the enclosures that totally encompass some area?

The ambiguity would be between a 3 and an upper case cursive Z; or a 2 and an upper case cursive Q. And probably only on unlined paper in the case of a 3 and a Z, as the bottom of the Z goes below the line while the entire 3 is above the line. (A person would have to be including some unnecessary flourishes on their 3's in order for the ambiguity to occur in the first place.)

 

[DaveC426913]

with a slash if in mixed company, naked otherwise

Words to live by.

 

[Insanity]

1 - written as a single line, or like |
2 - no loops
3 - curves, not a straight edge along the top
4 - open, not closed
5 - sometimes looks like 3s, as I start the top line on the left, then go back to the right to make the bottom of it.
7 - never crossed, was taught it might be mistaken for a closed 4.
8 - two circles, not drawn with one line.
0 - lined if writing serial number or such that include 0 and O.

 

[BobG]

None of which I'm aware, however:

QQ =

When texting or in a chat room, perhaps, but inserting double cursive capital 'Q's into a letter written with your favorite fountain pen probably won't get the same message across (and fountain pens should always be used to write in cursive, as any stituation requiring less than a fountain pen should just be handled with an email or a printed post-it note).

Besides, I thought cry was :'(

QQ must be 'rolling on the floor crying my freaking eyes out'

 

[Dembadon]

When texting or in a chat room, perhaps, but inserting double cursive capital 'Q's into a letter written with your favorite fountain pen probably won't get the same message across (and fountain pens should always be used to write in cursive, as any stituation requiring les than a fountain pen should just be handled with an email or a printed post-it note).

Besides, I thought cry was :'(

I've only just found out what it meant. My younger sister sent me a text, and I had to ask her. I had always used the symbols you mention above.

QQ must be 'rolling on the floor crying my freaking eyes out'

Or, ROTFCMFEO.

 

[Ben Niehoff]

I also write my 8's in one continuous motion, and it drives me nuts when people write two circles. Especially because those two circles can become separated and accidentally look like a colon (which some people also write as two circles, because they find two dots hard to see).

Here's another one:

t. In math, I write 't' by making the crossbar first, and then making a single vertical line that curls to the right, just like in this font. I know it breaks all the rules to make the crossbar first, but I find that any other method is likely to make my 't' look like a '+', star, or ampersand (I write my ampersand as a cursive '+', except in contexts where that could be confusing, and then I write it like '&').