X-ray production - maximum pressure

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conditions under which x-rays can be produced in vacuum environments, specifically in Crookes tubes or cathode ray tubes. Participants explore the relationship between pressure, electron mean free path, and the potential for x-ray generation at various vacuum levels, including practical concerns regarding safety and shielding.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the maximum pressure for x-ray production and expresses concern about operating at medium vacuum (5 Pa) with high voltage discharges (60 kV+).
  • Another participant provides a formula for the mean free path of atoms and suggests that electrons may have a similar expectation value, indicating that longer distances between electrodes could reduce x-ray production potential.
  • A participant calculates the mean free path of air at 5 Pa to be 7 mm and discusses the implications for x-ray photon production based on the gap between cathode and anode.
  • Another participant cautions that even with a large gap, the energy gained by electrons could still lead to x-ray production, especially if the mean free path for electrons is longer than that for atoms.
  • A participant proposes maintaining higher pressure (600 Pa) for safety and discusses the effects of pressure on the color of plasma discharge, questioning why the emission spectrum changes with pressure despite the same gas being present.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the relationship between pressure, mean free path, and x-ray production potential. There is no consensus on the maximum safe pressure or the exact conditions under which x-rays may be produced, indicating ongoing debate and uncertainty.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific calculations and assumptions regarding mean free paths and energy levels, but these calculations depend on various factors that may not be fully resolved in the discussion.

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What is the maximum practical or theoretical pressure at which x-rays can be produced, as in a Crookes tube or cathode ray tube? I know Crookes tubes operate at 0.1pa and lower, but I need to know if I am at risk of producing x-rays with high voltage (60kv+) discharges at medium vacuum, as low as 5pa.

Does the electron mean free path have anything to do with this? Maybe when the e-mean free path equals or exceeds the gap between cathode and anode, x-rays can be produced by electrons traveling across without being slowed by gas molecules? How do I calculate the electron mean free path in air at 5pa and 298k?

In the vacuum chamber at maximum vacuum, I can still see a slight movement of tissue paper placed in front of a computer fan, which makes me think there must still be too much air to allow x-rays to be produced, but I want to make sure before it's too late!
 
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The free path for atoms at room temperature is roughly ##\lambda \approx 1cm\frac{1 Pa}{p}## with pressure p, I wouldn't expect the value for electrons to be completely different. It is an expectation value, so some electrons will have longer acceleration distances. A longer distance between the electrodes can help.
 
Thanks for the reply. So basically, if the gap from cathode to anode is much larger than the mfp then there should be little potential to produce x-ray photons? That makes sense because the mfp of air at 5pa(my setup) is 7mm, and at 0.1pa as in a Crookes tube, it approaches 1 meter, that would make a big difference.
 
Well, "much larger" - if the total gap is 70 centimeters, you still have 600 V per calculated mean free path, so some electrons will gain keVs of energy. To make it worse, I would expect electrons (especially accelerated ones) to have a longer mean free path than atoms. A factor of 4 (suggested by geometry - electrons are smaller than atoms) would be sufficient to get many electrons up to 10 keV. You are certainly still in a pressure range where a more detailed analysis (or sufficient shielding) is necessary.
 
I assume it would be safe if I maintain a much higher pressure, like keeping a container of water under the vacuum so that the pressure cannot drop below 600pa? I will use lead shielding if/when I remove the water to allow much lower pressures.Hopefully this is not too off-topic, but why does the color of the plasma change as the pressure drops? (Because I am using A/C, there are no striations, dark spaces, etc in the discharge.)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kzks9caltx0rfs1/plasme discharge mason jar high pressure - pink.png?dl=0

It looks like this, pink mostly from nitrogen's emission lines, but then as the vacuum gets very pure, it turns ghostly white like this:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/g3kz9etdgwq62tl/plasme discharge mason jar low pressure - white.png.png?dl=0

I know this is from lower pressure, but if the same gas is present, shouldn't the emission spectrum and color be the same? Why does it change color?

(Sorry I could not get the images to show up in the post directly)
 
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