Prospect for Nuclear Power Industry in US

AI Thread Summary
President Bush's recent speech advocated for increased nuclear power development, though it received minimal emphasis. The discussion highlights skepticism about the president's ability to significantly influence nuclear power expansion, with many believing that congressional action, particularly in streamlining the licensing process, is essential. Concerns about nuclear waste management persist, but some participants express support for nuclear energy if these issues are adequately addressed. Historical examples, such as the Shoreham Nuclear Plant, illustrate the financial risks and regulatory challenges that deter companies from investing in new nuclear facilities. Overall, public perception and regulatory hurdles remain significant barriers to the growth of the nuclear power industry.
  • #51
Looks like reprocessing, which we now refer to as 'recycling', is back on the table based on some comments I heard at the recent ANS conference.
 
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  • #52
What do you mean?
 
  • #53
Exactly what I said - ". . . reprocessing, which we now refer to as 'recycling', is back on the table". I presume by changing the name of the process, some think that the present government can circumvent Carter's Presidential Directive.

No government agency or business has ever recycled nuclear waste for commercial use on U.S. soil, a policy begun when President Jimmy Carter renounced reprocessing and plutonium breeder research in a secret 1977 executive order.

The order, Presidential Directive 8, was declassified in 1994 and survives today as President Bill Clinton`s Presidential Decision Directive 13. For reprocessing research to resume, the directive would have to be either rescinded or reinterpreted. The Bush administration has not yet decided how to proceed.
from http://nuclearno.com/text.asp?181

But that is incorrect because I have reviewed the MOX utilization in the US and we have reprocessed commercial fuel and we have irradiated MOX in several plants.

==================================

For reference:

http://www.nci.org/new/pu-repro.htm

President Jimmy Carter, Presidential Directive/NSC-8, March 24, 1977 - http://www.nci.org/new/pu-repro/carter77/index.htm

President Bill Clinton, Statement on Nuclear Non-Proliferation and
Export Control Policy, September 23, 1993 - http://www.nci.org/new/pu-repro/clinton93.htm

================================

Also look for the "Advanced Fuel Cycle Inititiative" - http://afci.lanl.gov/

Basically, Yucca Mountain spent fuel repository has been designed for current and projected discharges from currently operating nuclear plants, presumably with the consideration of life extension from 40 to 60 years for many plants. But if the US builds new plants, either the capacity of Yucca Mountain has to be increased OR a new repository has to be built.

AND it is not clear that the US DOE will ever accept fuel at Yucca Mountain! Seriously. That would force the US to reprocess.
 
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  • #54
On Fox News yesterday there was a short segment about nuclear plant security and terrorism. It was discussed a bit in here, so I want to ask, in a realistic sense, what is the most damage terrorists could do? Destroy the containment building?
 
  • #55
theCandyman said:
On Fox News yesterday there was a short segment about nuclear plant security and terrorism. It was discussed a bit in here, so I want to ask, in a realistic sense, what is the most damage terrorists could do? Destroy the containment building?

Candyman,

I'd find it hard to believe that they could destroy the containment building.

If you had a tank or a howitzer - you'd have to pound away at the building
all day to destroy it. Basically, nothing short of a nuclear weapon is going
to destroy a containment building in a single blow - and that includes
crashing airliners.

With all the improvements to the reactor control systems that were
instituted in the wake of the Three Mile Island accident to prevent the
operators from doing something stupid that could lead to an accident -
those same systems which prevent the operator from damaging the
plant out of stupidity - will prevent a terrorist from damaging the
plant out of malice.

Conjectures about what terrorists could do to a nuclear plant are
great "scare stories" - which is why "journalists" like them.

Dr. Gregory Greenman
Physicist
 
  • #56
Energy Group Plans to Build Nuclear Plants in Gulf States
by Matthew Wald, NY Times

WASHINGTON, Sept. 22 - A consortium of eight companies said on Thursday that it would spend about $100 million to prepare applications to build two nuclear reactors, in Mississippi and Alabama, a step that seems to move the industry closer to its first new reactor order since the 1970's.

The announcement was made by NuStart Energy, a consortium of companies that has substantial government financing. The consortium selected a site in Claiborne County, Miss., adjacent to Entergy Nuclear's Grand Gulf reactor, and another in northern Alabama, next to the Tennessee Valley Authority's long-abandoned Bellefonte nuclear construction project.

The Energy Department is committed to sharing costs to develop the two applications, and has agreed to pay the application fee, about $30 million, for one of them; the consortium is asking the department for money for the other. At the same time, Entergy announced that it would act on its own to develop an application for a reactor at a site next to its Waterford plant, in Louisiana.

The government, the reactor manufacturers and companies that own and operate existing reactors are testing a reformed licensing procedure, established by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the 1990's to avoid the pitfalls of the 1970's and 80's, when several reactors were ordered and construction begun before design was completed or regulatory approval obtained.

Under the program, designs for the Grand Gulf reactor, to be made by General Electric, and the Bellefonte reactor, to be made by Westinghouse, will be mostly completed and also approved by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission before substantial work is done at the sites.

http://www.nustartenergy.com/
NUSTART NEWS RELEASE — Washington — The nation’s largest consortium of nuclear power companies today selected Grand Gulf Nuclear Station and Bellefonte Nuclear Plant as the sites it will use on applications for combined construction and operating licenses for new nuclear plants, the first in 30 years.

Grand Gulf, owned by an Entergy subsidiary, is near Port Gibson, Miss. Bellefonte, owned by the Tennessee Valley Authority, is near Scottsboro, Ala.

. . . . , but a new nuclear plant would bring considerable economic benefits – about 2,000 construction jobs for a four-year period, then 250-400 professional permanent jobs to operate and maintain the new plant.

Ms. Kray said NuStart will prepare two COL applications, one for the GE design and one for the Westinghouse design, but is currently funded by DOE to submit to NRC only one of the two. NuStart has a request pending at DOE that would permit NuStart to submit both applications. “We want competition and some selectivity,” she said.

The next step is for NuStart to begin detailed engineering and environmental work of the two respective reactor technologies at their designated sites in support of the applications for a combined COL which NuStart will file with the Nuclear Regulatory Commission in late 2007 or early 2008.

After an estimated two-year review, the NRC could issue in 2010 its first COL for a new nuclear power plant in 30 years. Then any NuStart member company or group of companies could take over the approved NuStart license in 2010 and use it to build that reactor. Construction is expected to take four years so the earliest that the first new nuclear plant could startup would be about 2014.

The NuStart work is being funded under the Department of Energy’s Nuclear Power 2010 program to kickstart new nuclear energy construction. The federal government is sharing 50-50 the cost of the detailed engineering with NuStart.
http://www.nustartenergy.com/DisplayArticle.aspx?ID=20050922-1
 
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  • #57
NuStart Selects Grand Gulf, Bellefonte For Advanced Nuclear Plant Licenses

http://www.entergy-nuclear.com/Nuclear/newsroom/newsDetail.asp?ID=764&RC=Nuclear&List=Region

WASHINGTON - The nation's largest consortium of nuclear power companies today selected Grand Gulf Nuclear Station and Bellefonte Nuclear Plant as the sites it will use on applications for combined construction and operating licenses for new nuclear plants, the first in 30 years.

Grand Gulf, owned by an Entergy subsidiary, is near Port Gibson, Miss. Bellefonte, owned by the Tennessee Valley Authority, is near Scottsboro, Ala.
 
  • #58
Nuclear Energy Research Advisory Committee (NERAC) Reports

http://nuclear.gov/nerac/reports1.html

Also in the news, Toshiba has purchased Westinghouse Electric from BNFL.

Feb. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Toshiba Corp., Japan's largest maker of nuclear power plant equipment, will pay $5.4 billion to buy 100 percent of Westinghouse Electric Co. to expand in atomic energy amid renewed interest in countries such as the U.S. and China.
"The time for nuclear is right," said British Nuclear Fuels Plc Chief Executive Officer Michael Parker said today in an interview in London. British Nuclear Fuels is a U.K. state-owned maker of reactors.

Toshiba, based in Tokyo, is seeking to expand its power plant operations as earnings from chips and consumer electronics slow amid increased competition. Westinghouse would give Toshiba the pressurized water reactor technology preferred by China, which may spend as much as $54 billion by 2020 building nuclear plants.

Toshiba plans to sell a minority stake in Westinghouse to several investors, the company said today in a statement. The nuclear power-generation market is expected to grow by 50 percent by 2020, the statement said.

Marubeni Corp., Japan's fifth-largest trading company, is in talks with Toshiba to invest in Westinghouse, Takashi Hashimoto, a spokesman at Tokyo-based Marubeni, said earlier today. Mitsui & Co. and Shaw Group Inc. were identified as possible partners, according to the Nihon Keizai newspaper last month.
http://www.irnnews.com/news.asp?action=detail&article=10616

BNFL, Toshiba Agree to Sale of Westinghouse
http://www.bnfl.com/content.php?pageID=69&newsID=248

Ah, the fun never stops in our industry. :rolleyes:
 
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  • #59
Nuclear energy will rise from the dead again someday. Think modular fast gas, or pebble bed reactors for now. Middle east oil reserves will be nearly depleted by 2050, IMO. A few countries, like the US, will be able to milk their domestic reserves for a decade or two.
 
  • #60
We had to watch a documentary about nuclear energy (and how its dangers are perceived much higher than in reality) and I remember some very interesting facts in the film - though I've forgotten the science behind them (yall will have to help with that).

In one experiment, this guy set outside for a period of time (like 3 hours or so) of a NY or NJ reactor with a geiger counter and measured the radiation. Then, he took that same geiger counter (yeah, it was pre-9/11) on an airplane and found that the amount of radiation exposure a person receives during a one-way airplane trip something like triples the amount of radiation received sitting outside a reactor for the same period (or longer).

He then took a geiger counter inside some lady's home and found that the building materials (I think granite and other rocks) that were inside her home were emitting TONS of radiation. Then he followed that lady's husband, who worked at a nuclear plant, from there home into the nuke plant and he set off the detectors (which I guess they have going into and coming out of) going INTO the nuke plant. Ha.

Then he went to one of those pill-shaped concrete cylinders of nuclear waste (I forget where) sitting somewhere in the US and sat outside of those for awhile. Again, negligible radiation.

Finally, he went to a coal extraction plant (or some type of stripmine) and found that the radiation exposure coming from the surrounding rocks that they had to dig through to get coal (apparently some fairly normal rocks are pretty radioactive, I think) were many multiples the amount of the emitted radiation of a nuke plant.

Basically, the film showed how effective nuclear energy can be (they showed how 70% of France is powered by it - and is thus an electricity EXPORTER) and also how overblown and fear-mongering the attacks against it could be.

And what was really frustrating was that the groups most vehemently opposed to nuclear energy were the environmental lobbies (the reactionist-type ones) and that, unwittingly, all they had accomplished for their 30-plus years of operation were to increase the market share of coal and petroleum plants - which are the ones that have really been hurting the environment with carbon emissions, etc.

Also, my teacher said that the only by-product of a nuke plant (apart from the waste - which he said is only not recycled in US, unlike France et al) was steam. Is that correct?

All mistakes in my accounting of this film were mine, please poke around with questions.
 
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  • #61
It's really frustrating how candidates who run on a pro-environment platform (at least comparatively) at the same time bash nuclear energy and, whether they want to or not, only increase the fossil fuel-based market share - which they also rant against constantly.

My family is in the oil business and has been for some time (so financially it's no particular sweat to us if the nuke industry tanks) but each one of us sympathizes with the nuclear industry for two reasons. First, every sane person - especially in the exploration business - knows that it's getting harder to find new reserves. In fact, iirc, the ratio of new reserve discoveries-to-oil and gas consumption has been negative (more new demand, less new oil) since something like 1975. The ones we have found are harder to get to -deep sea/artic reserves - and less profitable, making the whole thing enormously more speculative (a risk which gets passed on to the consumer). The market economics of the oil and gas industry are extremely complex and very interesting, but would require an entire thread to fully introduce.

But the second reason the oil and gas exploration industry is sympathetic to the plight of the nuclear energy industry is that they are having to face, in a less vicious but more pervasive way, the attacks from folks who seem to always be critical and never constructive (generally, under the 'environmentalist' nom-de-guerre) when it comes to energy supply and demand. For example, there is simply no logic (rooted in understanding of economics or conservation for that matter) in opposing - across the board - drilling in ANWR, middle east oil dependence, AND, at the same time, nuclear energy generation. For whatever reason, there is little compromising on their side, except semantically, with unsubstianted or unreasonable pleas toward things like solar energy, which, right now, simply can't supply (in an economically reasonable manner) the massive mW that nations demand.

(And also because the attacks can get pretty personal and vicious. When I tell people my family's in the oil industry, they immediately think and sometimes accuse crazy things like being imperialist propogaters of war in the middle east, drilling in ANWR, destroyer-of-rare algae (yes, that ones real) etc. all the while overlooking the simple fact that, the more the US actually gets cheap oil, the less profitable our industry becomes. Crazy, I tell ya..)

I've got shares - which have been tanking, btw - in some nuke energy businesses, simply cause I think they're the real future in energy production.
 
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  • #62
jhe1984 said:
Also, my teacher said that the only by-product of a nuke plant (apart from the waste - which he said is only not recycled in US, unlike France et al) was steam. Is that correct?
Not quite.

Nuclear plants generate low, moderate and high level waste, which are ranked by radioactivity.

The high level waste consists of spent fuel, which having operated in the core for 4-6 years, contains fission products. The spent fuel is stored in the spent fuel pool until it cools sufficiently to then put it in dry storage. In theory, the spent fuel is supposed to go to a final repository (once-through fuel cycle plan), which is supposed to be Yucca Mountain, NV. That hasn't happened yet, so the spent fuel continues to accumulate at each reactor/plant site.

In the normal course of operation, corrosion products in the cooling system become radioactive. This material (several 10's of kg) is collected on filters, which ultimately must be disposed. This waste is sent to special sites which dispose of low or moderate radioactive waste.

Other low-level waste accumulates during normal maintenance. Workers clothing, even with very low levels of radioactivity must be disposed of according to strict rules.
 
  • #63
jhe1984 said:
I've got shares - which have been tanking, btw - in some nuke energy businesses, simply cause I think they're the real future in energy production.
You mean utility shares?
 
  • #64
Yep. Two utilities within the NuStart Consortium. Had 'em for about a year now. Hopefully they'll pick up.

I've only got a limited number of shares currently because 1) it doesn't seem like the nuclear power industry is a particularly nimble creature (with application and building restrictions and all) and 2) I have yet to really understand the innerworkings of nuclear energy consortiums.

Mainly I'm banking on the DoE incentives coming to fruition between '08 and 2011. If the next Congress (or President for that matter) does an abrupt about-face - which apparently can happen [thinking of that Cuomo story] - then I guess I'm s.o.l.

But like I said, this is more me owning em cause I believe in their practicality (apart from the market). <--- why idealists make bad floor traders... :smile:
 
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  • #65
DOE will be tight on money.

The time to buy ETR was a year ago, but they are doing reasonably.

It it prudent to do one's research.
 
  • #66
hitssquad said:
Would neutron-radiation embrittlement of the steel rebar in older containment buildings also be an important factor, Astronuc?

I would say that if the neutron flux is high enough to damage the building, I wouldn't want to be standing just outside of it ! :bugeye:
 
  • #67
vanesch said:
I would say that if the neutron flux is high enough to damage the building, I wouldn't want to be standing just outside of it ! :bugeye:

vanesch,

You are very correct. The rebar in the walls of the containment doesn't get the hefty
neutron dose.

Embrittlement by neutrons is limited only to those parts of the plant that get a
direct exposure to neutrons - namely the reactor vessel and its internals.

Dr. Gregory Greenman
Physicist
 
  • #69
Just adding in something from the European Nuclear Society -

http://www.euronuclear.org/library/public/enews/ebulletinautumn2004/issue-6-print.htm

The bottom of the page contains websites for many societies and companies in the European nuclear industry.

http://www.euronuclear.org/library/public/enews/

Current news
 
  • #70
Today I heard a rumor (news which I cannot yet substantiate), that two pressure vessels have been ordered by a US utility(s) for two ABWRs - in the US of course.

Stay tuned.

Adding to this -

New Nukes for North America
http://www.loe.org/shows/segments.htm?programID=06-P13-00024&segmentID=1
Air Date: Week of June 16, 2006

Ontario, Canada plans to build two new nuclear reactors in the province to meet increasing demand for electricity.. At the same time, the government has delayed closing its existing coal plants as promised. Host Steve Curwood talks with Bob Carty, of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, about the controversial plan.

. . . .

Nuclear power is set to make a major comeback in North America. The Bush administration recently pushed a plan through Congress that grants as much as 15 billion dollars in federal aid, to jumpstart nuclear power plant construction, in the United States. And now in Canada the provincial government of Ontario has just announced it will spend 40 billion dollars to upgrade old atomic power stations and build some new ones.
 
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  • #71
Astronuc said:
New Nukes for North America
http://www.loe.org/shows/segments.htm?programID=06-P13-00024&segmentID=1
Air Date: Week of June 16, 2006
Astronuc,

One part of the above "Living on Earth" segment advises one look to how California
is dealing with its energy policy, as to how to be "environmentally sensitive".

California's power supply is anything but robust - which was why it was so easy for
energy companies to "game the system" a few years ago when California was having
blackouts and brownouts.

California gets a good chunk of its electricity from the two nuclear power stations
that are in the State; Diablo Canyon and San Onofre. In addition, the Los Angeles
Dept. of Water and Power is a partial owner the largest nuclear power plant in the
USA, Palo Verde in Arizona.

As for how "environmentally friendly" California is going to meet its future needs?

The California Energy Commission has plans for the building of new transmission
lines to the Rocky Mountain States where California's future electric power needs
will be provided by fossil-fueled power plants burning coal. [ For the CEC, it doesn't
count as pollution if the pollution isn't sourced in California. ]

California has a law on the books that there can be no new nuclear power plants
built in California until the Yucca Mountain Repository or its equivalent opens.

PG&E wants to do some upgrades on the steam turbo-generator portion of the
Diablo Canyon Nuclear Power Plant. Those changes to the steam cycle will
increase the efficiency of the plant - so California will get more electricity from
a given amount of heat from the reactors.

However, the California Energy Commission ruled that to increase the efficiency of
Diablo Canyon and get more electrical energy from the same amount of heat at
Diablo Canyon would be the functional equivalent of building a new nuclear power
plant - and hence would be illegal under state law.

Dr. Gregory Greenman
Physicist
 
  • #72
Morbius said:
PG&E wants to do some upgrades on the steam turbo-generator portion of the Diablo Canyon Nuclear Power Plant. Those changes to the steam cycle will increase the efficiency of the plant - so California will get more electricity from a given amount of heat from the reactors.
Sounds reasonable - convert more of the thermal energy to mechanical energy, by increasing turbine efficiency. Many plants have done that in US and Europe reducing the need to build additional units.

Morbius said:
However, the California Energy Commission ruled that to increase the efficiency of Diablo Canyon and get more electrical energy from the same amount of heat at Diablo Canyon would be the functional equivalent of building a new nuclear power plant - and hence would be illegal under state law.
- Shocked, not surprised. Idiots! Those people should be removed from the CEC for being stupid to the point of absurdity. What are they smoking?
 
  • #73
Astronuc said:
- Shocked, not surprised. Idiots! Those people should be removed from the CEC for being stupid to the point of absurdity. What are they smoking?
Astronuc,

This is California - what do you think they are smoking?

Actually, this is just the latest in a series of actions by the California state
government that makes one wonder about the mental faculties of state leaders.

About a decade ago, the California Air Resources Board (CARB), believed that they
could lower the pollution by diesel engines by eliminating a lubricant that is in diesel
fuel. So California got its own formulation of diesel fuel without the lubricant.

However, diesel engines RELY on that lubricant! Many, many diesel engines were
destroyed because they were operating without proper lubrication. The "poison diesel
fuel" incident ended up costing the taxpayers of California an awful lot of money.
See the 8th paragraph of:

http://www.pushback.com/environment/SmogCheckTestimony.html

The subject of the above testimony is another debacle; the mandate by CARB
that California gasoline must contain 11% MTBE. A few years later, toxic MTBE
started showing up in California drinking water reservoirs. The State commissioned
the University of California and Lawrence Livermore National Labs to study the
problem. The study indicated MASSIVE pollution of California water:

http://www.llnl.gov/str/News1098.html

"Lab reports on downside of gas additive

In mid-June, Laboratory scientists filed a report of their comprehensive assessment of
the extent to which the gasoline additive MTBE (methyl tertiary-butyl ether) has
contaminated groundwater in California. ... the Livermore report concludes that MTBE
has contaminated groundwater at more than 10,000 sites, spreads quickly through the
water supply, and "may prove a cumulative contamination hazard" as it builds up in
groundwater... The Environmental Protection Agency has identified MTBE as a
"possible human carcinogen." Livermore scientists found MTBE in nearly 80 percent of
the 1,858 monitoring wells examined throughout the state. Groundwater provides 40 to
60 percent of the state's water supply. "

http://www.llnl.gov/str/Happel.html

"MTBE is a frequent and widespread contaminant in shallow groundwater throughout
California, that MTBE plumes are more mobile than hydrocarbon plumes, and that
MTBE may attenuate primarily through dispersion because it resists biodegradation.
Put together, these conclusions point to a compound that may progressively
accumulate until it contaminates groundwater resources on a regional scale."

The "take-away" point is that when someone justifies an action because "that's what
California is doing..", as in the case of the article posted by Astronuc - that's when
one really needs to be SCEPTICAL!

California, and particularily the California State Government seems to be repleat with
idiots like those that Astronuc denounces above.

Dr. Gregory Greenman
Physicist
 
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  • #74
Texas nuclear plant partner proposes $5.2 billion expansion

NRG Energy Inc., one of three owners of the South Texas Project, on Wednesday proposed a plan to build two new generating units at the nuclear power plant for $5.2 billion.

Princeton, N.J.-based NRG (NYSE: NRG) owns 44 percent of the nuclear power facility along with CPS Energy in San Antonio and Austin Energy. CPS Energy and Austin Energy own the remaining 40 percent and 16 percent, respectively.

http://sanantonio.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/stories/2006/06/19/daily21.html

I don't know if this is about the two ABWRs on order. I would think they would put two AP-1000's down there at STP.
 
  • #75
The Paloverde Nuclear power station west of Phoenix AZ is talking about adding two new reactors to their current three.

Are there any companies in the USA who make components for reactors? The last I remember there was a tariff on foreign made components.
 
  • #76
Large forgings, such as pressure vessels, would have to be build at Japan Steel Works, the only shop in the world which is qualified for nuclear grade forgings. ( http://www.jsw.co.jp/en/product/material/steel/index.html )

There are some shops in the US, which could become qualified, if the business picks up.

Ansaldo (Italy) and B&W Canada have made steam generator vessels (for replacement projects in the US), and I believe GE Canada has made pressure vessels.
 
  • #77
edward said:
Are there any companies in the USA who make components for reactors? The last I remember there was a tariff on foreign made components.
edward,

Sure - practically all the components in current US reactors are of US manufacture.

The nuclear components in nuclear-powered US warships - are also US made.
The aircraft carrier U.S.S. Ronald Reagan [CVN-76] was completed a couple years
ago - and currently under construction is the U.S.S. George Herbert Walker Bush
[CVN-77].

However, as Astronuc points out, at the present time; US manufacturers are not
certified to make nuclear grade components. But that's more of a licensing issue
than a capability issue. If a company isn't making components for nuclear power
plants, why would they keep their certification active? But, when there is a market;
they can be re-certified.

Dr. Gregory Greenman
Physicist
 
  • #78
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&articleID=0000137A-C4BF-14E5-84BF83414B7F0000
A threefold expansion of nuclear power could contribute significantly to staving off climate change by avoiding one billion to two billion tons of carbon emissions annually
By John M. Deutch and Ernest J. Moniz
Scientific American, Sept. 2006

Nuclear power supplies a sixth of the world's electricity. Along with hydropower (which supplies slightly more than a sixth), it is the major source of "carbon-free" energy today. The technology suffered growing pains, seared into the public's mind by the Chernobyl and Three Mile Island accidents, but plants have demonstrated remarkable reliability and efficiency recently. The world's ample supply of uranium could fuel a much larger fleet of reactors than exists today throughout their 40- to 50-year life span.

With growing worries about global warming and the associated likelihood that greenhouse gas emissions will be regulated in some fashion, it is not surprising that governments and power providers in the U.S. and elsewhere are increasingly considering building a substantial number of additional nuclear power plants. The fossil-fuel alternatives have their drawbacks. Natural gas is attractive in a carbon-constrained world because it has lower carbon content relative to other fossil fuels and because advanced power plants have low capital costs. But the cost of the electricity produced is very sensitive to natural gas prices, which have become much higher and more volatile in recent years. In contrast, coal prices are relatively low and stable, but coal is the most carbon-intensive source of electricity. The capture and sequestration of carbon dioxide, which will add significantly to the cost, must be demonstrated and introduced on a large scale if coal-powered electricity is to expand significantly without emitting unacceptable quantities of carbon into the atmosphere. These concerns raise doubts about new investments in gas- or coal-powered plants.

Original LWRs were designed for a 40 yr life. Life extension programs are pushing the lifetime to 60 yrs, although that could change dramatically based on the aging of the pressure vessel and primary coolant systems components, primarily the in-core structures.
 
  • #79
About 16 new reactors between about 10 utilities are in various early processes for building new nuclear plants. I work at one of them. I'm surprised to see how quiet this has been to the rest of the country, but we're definitely going to build.

Look for the first new generation 3+ plants to be online in the 2015 time frame and two ASBWRs (gen 3) to go online at South Texas Project a bit before that.

If you want questions answered from within the industry, fire away.
 
  • #80
I know that two pressure vessels have been orderd by NRG for the two ABWRs at STP site, but I think the COLs are still pending. A friend in the industry told me about the plans for Amarillo Power to build two ABWRs, piggy-backing on STP's designs.

Developer George Chapman has filed paperwork with a host of agencies on a plan to build a twin-unit, 2,700-megawatt nuclear reactor. His company, Amarillo Power, will have to jump through innumerable hoops to obtain the necessary permits. And as we proceed through the thicket of regulations, it becomes incumbent on everyone - in government and in neighborhoods throughout the Panhandle - to keep a wide open mind.

Then comes the financing of this $6 billion project. Chapman doesn't have that kind of money just lying around, so he'll need help. The Amarillo Economic Development Corp., which uses sales-tax money to spur economic development in the Panhandle, has begun studying whether it wants to get involved with this project.
http://www.amarillo.com/stories/080606/opi_5266689.shtml

Here is a list of new plants under consideration.
http://www.nei.org/documents/New_Nuclear_Plant_Status.pdf

Dominion has plans for an ESBWR at North Anna (although I have heard 2 were being considered), Nustart/Entergy has plans for an ESBWR at Grand Gulf, and maybe River Bend (later), and Southern Co (SNOC) has plans for 2 AP1000's at Vogtle site. These seem most likely and are farthest along.

I've heard TXU has plans for several nuclear plants.
 
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  • #81
Here are various reports on the Gen IV concepts.

http://nuclear.inl.gov/deliverables/

Some IAEA reports and TECDOCs on Fast Reactor Technology and Fuel
http://www.iaea.org/inis/aws/fnss/abstracts/index.html
 
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  • #82
That little matter of waste storage - LLW, HLW and spent fuel.

http://marketplace.publicradio.org/shows/2007/05/04/PM200705045.html
 
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  • #83
Astronuc said:
That little matter of waste storage - LLW, HLW and spent fuel.
Astronuc,

Very timely program / article.

Quoting from the article:

ADAM LEVINE: There's an opportunity to use more than 90 percent of the weight in new fuel.

Recycling / reprocessing reduces the amount of nuclear waste by a large amount. Just
recently we had a poster claiming that recycling / reprocessing creates more waste which
just isn't true. When one can remove 90%+ of the material from the waste stream, there's
no way that "adds" to the waste, regardless of whether your metric is mass or volume.
The anti-nukes persist at trying to propagate that myth.

Then there's the input from the representative of the Natural Resources Defense Council:

PAINE: All the calculations show that recycled fuel is more costly than the most
pessimistic predictions for the future of conventional nuclear fuel.
PAINE: This is the process that was used to separate material for U.S. nuclear weapons.

The USA doesn't need any more Plutonium for nuclear weapons. The USA shutdown
its production reactors decades ago. The USA ceased production of weapons-grade
Plutonium decades ago. The USA has all the Plutonium it needs for weapons. The
experience of the last couple decade of the Cold War was that as new weapons designs
came out; they needed less Plutonium than the current generation. So the USA could
always scavenge any needed Plutonium for new weapons from old weapons that the
new ones would replace. The short of it is that you don't need to be concerned about
the USA making more weapons Plutonium. It doesn't need it; and it doesn't want it.

So why should the USA forgo recycling / reprocessing nuclear waste? The Plutonium
in commercial reactor waste isn't weapons grade; so why would the USA want it for
weapons when the USA has all the weapons Plutonium it wants / needs?

The USA isn't a "proliferation risk" when it comes to reprocessing spent fuel. There's a
concern about OTHER nations reprocessing; but "that ship sailed" back in the the days
of the Carter Administration. The USA decided not to reprocess in order to convince
other nations like Great Britain, France, and Japan not to reprocess. It didn't work.

I wouldn't want reprocessing technology spread to non-nuclear weapons states; where it
could be used by a nascent proliferator. However, just because this technology can be
used for nuclear weapons is no reason that a country like the USA which already has all
the weapons material it needs; should be prevented from using it.

As to Mr. Paine's point about reprocessed fuel being more expensive than virgin fuel;
yes. However, don't we tell people that it's good environmental policy to buy products
that have a high percentage of recycled content, even if it is a bit more expensive?

Don't we tell people that the beneficial environmental effects are WORTH the extra $$$
to have a product that uses recycled material? Mr Paine's group the NRDC makes that
point for consumer products; why does he take issue with it for the nuclear utility industry?

In the long run; I believe the nuclear utility industry would probably be willing to expend
more $$$ for reprocessed fuel because they would take the view that the reduced volume
of waste would be worth the extra $$$ in the long term.

Of course the NRDC is anti-nuclear; and they don't want to see any reduction in the
amount of nuclear waste, or any solution to the nuclear waste problem. Their whole
strategy has been to promote policies to MAXIMIZE the nuclear waste problem in hopes
of using the backlog of waste to shutdown nuclear power in the USA.

Dr. Gregory Greenman
Physicist
 
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  • #84
When an environmentalist mentions money, people should instantly put their guard up. Environmentalists are supposed to be worried about the environment - if money were all that's important, we'd just build more coal plants.

And the nuclear power-nuclear weapons connection, though valid for countries like North Korea, doesn't make a lot of sense here.

Anyway, a decent story otherwise. At least it was the inverse of the usual story: the story was told from the point of view of the nuclear power professional the floating-head-objector at the end was the "environmentalist". Still, this journalistic technique isn't very good for actually discussing/evaluating the pros and cons.

And I do like the use of the word "recycling" - the public needs to understand that what we have here is environmentalists arguing against recycling - another red-flag that something is amiss. At the same time, it will increase the publc's acceptance of the concept.
 
  • #85
Morbius said:
Of course the NRDC is anti-nuclear; and they don't want to see any reduction in the amount of nuclear waste, or any solution to the nuclear waste problem. Their whole strategy has been to promote policies to MAXIMIZE the nuclear waste problem in hopes of using the backlog of waste to shutdown nuclear power in the USA.
As nefarious as that sounds, I've come to the same conclusion about "environmentalists" tactics. I don't really understand why they hold the positions they do (is it the politics?), but certainly when using tactics like this, it seems they are trying to take down what they oppose by causing the problems they use as a reason to stop what they oppose.
 
  • #86
russ_watters said:
it seems they are trying to take down what they oppose by causing the problems they use as a reason to stop what they oppose.
Russ,

Yes - it's very circular.

I think part of the problem is that many so-called "environmentalists" have never really
separated nuclear power and nuclear weapons in their minds. [ The main anti-nuclear
group that opposed the Diablo Canyon Nuclear Power Plant called themselves,
"Mothers for Peace". It's as if the nuclear power plant was "anti-peace"; a tool for war.]

Although duplicitous, it's a clever tactic. You can have one group that can appear to be
ingenuous; they want nuclear power plants operated in a sustainable fashion; they want
the waste dealt with; and they want the operation to also make economic sense. In
other words; they look like they have valid concerns.

What they don't tell you; is that they are also the ones that are causing the very problems
they complain about by working behind the scenes.

Unfortunately, many believe the way to being environmentally responsible is to promote
policies whereby humans have little, if any; impact on the environment. Dr Patrick Moore
spoke of this in his address to Congress:

http://www.greenspirit.com/logbook.cfm?msid=70

He found that the "environmentalists" in Greenpeace were "anti-human", that they
consider humanity as a "cancer on the Earth". They don't want an environmentally
friendly way for us to have the availability of power and the lifestyle that we've come
to depend on. They want humanity to change to a low-energy, low-impact lifestyle.
Nuclear power enables the opposite without the environmental objections to our
current power generation capabilities. So naturally they are opposed to nuclear power;
it takes away their main issue forcing humanity into the "low-impact" mode.

As Patrick Moore told Congress, "I believe the majority of environmental activists,
including those at Greenpeace, have now become so blinded by their extremism that they
fail to consider the enormous and obvious benefits of harnessing nuclear power to meet
and secure America�s growing energy needs."

Patrick Moore left Greenpeace, because it was taken over by extremists.

Dr. Moore realizes that the majority of our citizenry are not going to take up the "sack-
cloth" in favor of environmentalism. People want to live the way they do now.
Dr. Moore is being pragmatic.

Dr. Gregory Greenman
Physicist
 
  • #87
Of interesting note is that DoE has contracted the Shaw group and AREVA to down-blend old weapon plutonium with depleted tails and other previously undesirable materials to make MOX (mixed-oxide) fuel for use in commercial reactors. Their facility at Savannah River is under construction, and I had the opportunity to sit through a technology and sales presentation for what they're doing and what they're offering, just this Monday, the 7th. The DoE is willing to foot the bill for much of the analysis work necessary for the commercial plants to use the MOX fuel.

If the fuel reprocessing center goes up at SR as well, then that site is going to become hugely important to the commercial nuclear industry.
 
  • #88
Emfuser said:
Of interesting note is that DoE has contracted the Shaw group and AREVA to down-blend old weapon plutonium with depleted tails and other previously undesirable materials to make MOX (mixed-oxide) fuel for use in commercial reactors.
Emfuser,

Correct - as I stated above - the Department of Energy has all the Plutonium it needs for
nuclear weapons - and then some. The Dept of Energy and the United States are NOT
interested in getting more Plutonium - and certainly not from commercial power reactors.

As Emfuser points out; the Dept. of Energy is actually trying to rid itself of some of the
Plutonium it does have, so it doesn't have to store the stuff. When you store Plutonium,
you must make sure it is safe and secure from theft - thus making Plutonium much,
much, much more expensive to store than an equivalent volume of steel or some other
non-sensitive material.

If the Dept of Energy is trying to get rid of excess Plutonium, it is certainly NOT going to
be searching for more the in waste stream of commercial power plants. So to argue that
reprocessing by the United States somehow supports nuclear weapons development is
FOOLISH!

There should be no constraint on nuclear waste reprocessing by the USA on the grounds
that it is a proliferation risk.

Dr. Gregory Greenman
Physicist
 
  • #89
russ_watters said:
As nefarious as that sounds, I've come to the same conclusion about "environmentalists" tactics. I don't really understand why they hold the positions they do (is it the politics?), but certainly when using tactics like this, it seems they are trying to take down what they oppose by causing the problems they use as a reason to stop what they oppose.

Greens have their historical grassroots in the anti-nuclear movement. In fact - I wasn't aware of this until recently, because there were legislative elections in my country - Belgium which has been one of the countries producing most of its electricity by nuclear power (> 60%), decided in 2003 to "close all nuclear power plants in 2015, or at latest in 2025". This was done because there was a green party in the government coalition. They ideally want to replace them with "solar and wind power", and if necessary with coal power plants.
Then, in their policy statement, they say that they have two main concerns: global warming, and "the nuclear problem", and that they did well on the second one.

In other words, when the green movement is confronted with a choice between a potentially REAL ecological problem, and their historical battle against "all things nuclear", then they do not mind agravating the first in order to be able to push their old agenda.
 
  • #90
I read an article today that Dominion Generation has placed a contract for the procurement of long-lead components (large forgings) with GE for a new nuclear unit (ESBWR) at North Anna site.
 
  • #91
Details of U.S.-India Nuclear Pact Unveiled
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12309269

All Things Considered, July 27, 2007 · Without providing many technical details, Washington and New Delhi released a joint statement Friday saying they've completed negotiations on a deal that would open the doors for U.S. and Indian firms to participate in each other's civilian nuclear energy sector — a deal, first announced in 2005, that the Bush administration says is historic.

Under Secretary of State Nicholas Burns says negotiators have worked for two years and two days to reach this point — and he believes the deal complies with U.S. law.

"We believe this great historic civil nuclear agreement will become part of a new strategic partnership between our countries," Burns says. "We are ready to build that relationship with India."

The deal has many critics on Capitol Hill and among non-proliferation experts. Gary Milhollin of the Wisconsin Project on Nuclear Arms Control says the deal sends the wrong message to Iran.

"We tried to stop India from getting the bomb; we failed. India has the bomb; India is still building its missile program, and yet we are ready to treat India as a normal trading partner, basically because we want to make money," Milhollin says.

India never signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, and the Bush administration argues that this deal will bring India into the fold — putting its civilian nuclear facilities under inspection for the first time. Burns says Iran, on the other hand, is an outlaw state that should get a different message from the India deal.

. . . .

This should kick things up a notch.


Interestingly, the US domestic nuclear industry is largely foreign controlled. Westinghouse (including ABB-CE) was sold by the British BNFL to the Japanese Toshiba, and the French control AREVA (formerly B&W's and Exxon's/Siemens's nuclear divisions). GE's nuclear fuel group, GNF, is still US owned, but they are partnered with Hitachi and Toshiba, although with Toshiba's purchase of W, they will most likely withdraw from the partnership with GNF/Hitachi.
 
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  • #92
The Indians have a longterm thorium plan they've been pursuing, and so this new overture by the US seems intended to forestall that plan by offering up the more established and controlled technologies to India.
 
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