Covariant vs. contravariant time component

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the identification of the energy of a particle with the time component of the four-momentum vector, specifically contrasting covariant and contravariant forms. Participants explore theoretical bases, metric conventions, and implications in different contexts, such as special and general relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why the energy of a particle is identified with p0 instead of p0, seeking a theoretical basis or observational justification for this choice.
  • There is a discussion about the metric conventions used in different texts, with some noting that covariant and contravariant components are related by the metric and emphasizing the importance of ensuring positive energy.
  • One participant states that in the metric (+---), p0 and p0 are equal, suggesting that it does not matter which is used, but insists that p0 should represent physical energy as it is a contravariant vector.
  • Another participant introduces the Schwarzschild metric, arguing that in this context, p0 and p0 differ not only by sign but also in magnitude, complicating the identification of energy.
  • One participant provides a mathematical expression involving the Schwarzschild metric and discusses the implications for the energy of a freely falling particle, questioning the coordinate expression of a related Killing vector.
  • There is a clarification regarding the definitions of p0 and p0 in terms of the Schwarzschild metric, with a participant expressing uncertainty about which form represents the energy of the particle.
  • A question is raised about the nature of the Killing vector and its relation to the partial derivative of the displacement vector with respect to coordinate time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion contains multiple competing views regarding the identification of energy with the time component of the four-momentum vector, particularly in different metric contexts. Participants express uncertainty and challenge each other's claims without reaching a consensus.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the dependence of their arguments on the choice of metric, particularly the implications of using the Schwarzschild metric versus the Minkowski metric. There are unresolved mathematical steps and assumptions regarding the relationship between covariant and contravariant components.

snoopies622
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...of the four-momentum vector.

Why is the energy of a particle identified with p0 instead of p0? Is there a theoretical basis for this, or was it simply observed that p0 is conserved in a larger set of circumstances?
 
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How is the metric written in that book (-+++) or (+---)?

Covariant and contravariant components are related by the metric.

Just make sure the energy is positive.
 
In the more usual metric (+---) of SR, p^0 and p_0 are equal, so it doesn't matter which you use. In any event, although they are equal, it should be p^0 that is the physical energy since the four-momentum is a contravariant vector.
If you are reading a book that uses the metric (-+++), then everything could be different.
 
I did not have the Minkowski metric specifically in mind. If one uses the Schwarzschild metric -- or any other diagonal metric with |g_{00}|\neq1 -- p0 and p0 differ by more than just the sign; they have different magnitudes, so the energy of a particle cannot have both values. It's been my impression that in such circumstances one uses the covariant form instead of the contravariant form, but I don't know why.
 
snoopies622 said:
If one uses the Schwarzschild metric

If one uses standard Schwarzschild coordinates, then

k = \frac{\partial}{\partial t}

is a timelike Killing vector. If u is the 4-velocity of a freely falling particle, then

E = g \left( k , u \right)

is constant along the particle's worldline.

What is the coordinate expression of the above coordinate-free expression?
 
What I had in mind was

p^0=m_0 c \frac{dt}{d\tau} while p_0= g_{00}m_0 c \frac{dt}{d\tau}=(1-\frac{r_s}{r})m_0 c \frac{dt}{d\tau}

where d\tau=ds/c and ds is defined using the Schwarzschild metric. Since (1-\frac{r_s}{r}) won't equal 1 while r is finite, these two terms (p0 and p0) have different values, and I don't know which one (if either) represents the energy of the particle.

Regarding the coordinate-free expression, when you say that k = \frac{\partial}{\partial t} is a vector, do you mean the partial derivative of the displacement vector with respect to coordinate time? or of a different vector?
 
Last edited:

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