Can general relativity explain the difference in tides between land and sea?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the application of general relativity to explain the differences in tidal effects between land and sea on Earth. Participants explore how the principles of spacetime and geodesics relate to the observed phenomena of tides, particularly in the context of gravitational influences from the moon.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that general relativity describes gravity as the effect of bodies following inertial paths in distorted spacetime, questioning how this accounts for the difference in tidal heights between land and sea.
  • Another participant argues that particles do not follow geodesic paths due to inter-atomic forces, which are stronger in land than in water, leading to less deformation of land compared to oceans.
  • A participant draws an analogy to a system of masses connected by springs to conceptualize the behavior of tides in a non-Euclidean space.
  • A later reply affirms the analogy as a useful way to think about the problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how general relativity applies to the phenomenon of tides, with no consensus reached on a definitive explanation.

Contextual Notes

The discussion involves assumptions about the nature of forces acting on particles in different states (land vs. water) and the implications of these forces on tidal behavior, which remain unresolved.

dodo
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Hello,
general relativity describes gravity not as a force (as opposed to the classical view), but as the effect of bodies following an inertial path on a distorted spacetime.

How does that explain the sea tides on Earth? The moon pulls the water without pulling the surrounding land by the same amount. I understand that the moon does pull the land (which is a nuisance for satellite ground measurements), but certainly we perceive a relative difference in heights between land and sea. How is that explained in terms of objects following a spacetime geodesic, when land and sea are, near their areas of contact (the shores), at such proximity?

Thanks!
 
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particles only move along geodesic paths through curved spacetime if there are no non-gravitational forces acting on them, i.e. if they are in freefall. There are inter-atomic forces between the particles in both land and water, so these particles don't follow geodesics, and the fact that we see tides has to do with the fact that these inter-atomic forces are stronger in land than in water, so the solid land doesn't get deformed as much from a spherical shape as the oceans do. This page has a simple diagram:

bulges2.jpg
 
Ah, alright. So I gather that the question is similar to imagining a system of masses connected by springs (some looser, some stronger), and asking how would it work on a non-euclidean space.

Thanks for the link!
 
Dodo said:
Ah, alright. So I gather that the question is similar to imagining a system of masses connected by springs (some looser, some stronger), and asking how would it work on a non-euclidean space.
Yes, that's an excellent way of thinking about it.
 

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