8.9 earthquake in Japan: tsunami warnings

[nismaratwork]

Crud crud crud crud crud crud crud...

They withdrew the last workers from Fukishimi-Daichi... That.. as I understand it, is a very very bad sign.

 

[nismaratwork]

Whoa... CNN reported that the Japanese PM used profanity and yelled at TEPCO heads...

That's... wow. He must be beyond pissed off to do that!

I honestly expect some suicides at TEPCO.

 

[rhody]

For what it is worth...

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0...uel-pools-and-why-are-they-a-threat/(page)/2"

Fuel rod assemblies
Each "fuel assembly," roughly 15 feet long, is a unit containing 82 fuel rods full of the reactor's fuel: uranium oxide pellets. During periodic refueling shutdowns, workers typically replace 20 to 30 percent of the fuel assemblies.

Once extracted from the reactor, the used assemblies are housed in close-fitting steel containers that are treated with boron, to ensure they don't resume the chain reactions necessary to generate electricity.

The used assemblies are then submerged in 45 feet of water in a spent-fuel pool. The water acts as a radiation barrier, in addition to serving as a coolant.

and

Spent fuel releases its most intense heat during the first 100 to 120 days after it is removed from the core, says Glenn Sjoden, a professor of nuclear engineering at Georgia Tech in Atlanta. Indeed, as workers try to cope with three reactor cores and at least four troubled spent-fuel pools, "we're looking at having to manage this heat over the next three months."

After that first few months, a fuel assembly can be removed from the pool for reprocessing, he adds.

At the stricken Fukushima I plant, much of the spent fuel in the six pools had been moved to a reprocessing facility. But No. 4's pool has a full reactor core's worth of spent fuel sitting in it – fuel withdrawn from No. 4's reactor during a routine maintenance outage that began on Nov. 30, 2010.

This gives you big picture perspective... Comments, Astro ?

Rhody...

P.S. http://quanta-gaia.org/reviews/books/FeymanJoking.html" , pay particular attention to the last 10 sections... there is a kernel of truth (IMHO of course) buried in there, one I never forgot, and wanted to share...

 

[DevilsAvocado]

Cyclones and meteor strikes?

Heavy snow, visibility 40 meters, -2 Celsius (28 Fahrenheit)

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/world/9023365/snow-piles-more-misery-on-japans-devastated-northeast/"

 

[DevilsAvocado]

For what it is worth...

Thanks Rhody.

Stupid question: Is this "pool" inside unit No. 4?

 

[Astronuc]

For what it is worth...

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0...uel-pools-and-why-are-they-a-threat/(page)/2"

I'll comment later. The fuel (UO2) height in a BWR is about 12.3-12.5 ft (146-150 inches), and there is a small void volume (plenum) at the top of the fuel rod to moderate pressure. The fuel is surrounded by Zr-2 cladding and sealed at both ends by Zr-2 endplugs. Eight of the fuel rods are special in that they attach the top and bottom tie plates which are part of the supporting structure of a BWR fuel assembly. Fuel in the 1970s used an 8x8 array of fuel rods. In the mid 1980s, 9x9 arrays were introduced, and in the 1990s, 10x10 arrays became the norm. The rods got smaller in diameter and the different arrays all occupy the same envelope.[/quote]

I know Glenn. He knows his stuff. The concern is that Unit 4 was shutdown and it appears that they did a full core offload - which mean the hottest fuel is in the SFP. The concern is that pool is the most at risk for boiling dry.

 

[nismaratwork]

That, and the concern that the cladding seems to be what was burning.

That's... what releases the cesium... right?

@DA: The fuel containment pool is above ground, but within containment, or was at least.

@Astronuc: Your friend has been on CNN, as I recall, and he was both very honest and extremely wise in his caution. Talk about a level head, and he was being constantly pestered for a doomsday scenario.

 

[rhody]

I'll comment later. The fuel (UO2) height in a BWR is about 12.3-12.5 ft (146-150 inches), and there is a small void volume (plenum) at the top of the fuel rod to moderate pressure. The fuel is surrounded by Zr-2 cladding and sealed at both ends by Zr-2 endplugs. Eight of the fuel rods are special in that they attach the top and bottom tie plates which are part of the supporting structure of a BWR fuel assembly. Fuel in the 1970s used an 8x8 array of fuel rods. In the mid 1980s, 9x9 arrays were introduced, and in the 1990s, 10x10 arrays became the norm. The rods got smaller in diameter and the different arrays all occupy the same envelope.

I know Glenn. He knows his stuff. The concern is that Unit 4 was shutdown and it appears that they did a full core offload - which mean the hottest fuel is in the SFP. The concern is that pool is the most at risk for boiling dry.

Thanks Astro...

A question, hypothetical... before the spent fuel rods are placed in the cooling pool, this sounds logical, but may be impractical due to their design, would it be possible to separate the pellet assemblies by a greater distance before being submerged, hence, not as much cooling required for the 3-4 month cool down period ?

Picture the pellet assemblies in the tube being connected to one another by a giant rubber band, and the rod being especially long on either end with a fair amount of free space, and the rubber band with the pellet assemblies protruding from either end. If you pull the rubber band from each end with the same amount of force the attached pellets now separate further, slowing their interaction and heat generated with one another. Would this decrease the temperature for cooling, and would the time to cool the rod assemblies be speeded up ?

Rhody...

 

[nismaratwork]

I know Glenn. He knows his stuff. The concern is that Unit 4 was shutdown and it appears that they did a full core offload - which mean the hottest fuel is in the SFP. The concern is that pool is the most at risk for boiling dry.

Thanks Astro...

A question, hypothetical... before the spent fuel rods are placed in the cooling pool, this sounds logical, but may be impractical due to their design, would it be possible to separate the pellet assemblies by a greater distance before being submerged, hence, not as much cooling required for the 3-4 month cool down period ?

Picture the pellet assemblies in the tube being connected to one another by a giant rubber band, and the rod being especially long on either end with a fair amount of free space, and the rubber band with the pellet assemblies protruding from either end. If you pull the rubber band from each end with the same amount of force the attached pellets now separate further, slowing their interaction and heat generated with one another. Would this decrease the temperature for cooling, and would the time to cool the rod assemblies be speeded up ?

Rhody...

Each pellet is still going to decay at the same rate AFAIK, because we're talking about decay heat, and eventual storage. Remember, they're done interacting with each other (I think) in any meaningful way, but beta decay is still ongoing, and separation would just add risk... not to mention opportunities to skim a pellet here and there for sale on the black market. That would be a nightmare, not to mention you'd be compromising the rod...

 

[Astronuc]

I know Glenn. He knows his stuff. The concern is that Unit 4 was shutdown and it appears that they did a full core offload - which mean the hottest fuel is in the SFP. The concern is that pool is the most at risk for boiling dry.

Thanks Astro...

A question, hypothetical... before the spent fuel rods are placed in the cooling pool, this sounds logical, but may be impractical due to their design, would it be possible to separate the pellet assemblies by a greater distance before being submerged, hence, not as much cooling required for the 3-4 month cool down period ?

Picture the pellet assemblies in the tube being connected to one another by a giant rubber band, and the rod being especially long on either end with a fair amount of free space, and the rubber band with the pellet assemblies protruding from either end. If you pull the rubber band from each end with the same amount of force the attached pellets now separate further, slowing their interaction and heat generated with one another. Would this decrease the temperature for cooling, and would the time to cool the rod assemblies be speeded up ?

Rhody...

It is not practical to dismantle the fuel assemblies, that is time consuming and would take up more space/volume was increased. Each BWR fuel assembly has a square channel around the fuel rods, and the channel provides good lateral support.

There was a consideration of consolidation - putting spent fuel rods in a tighter latter - but only after long cool down. As far as I know, the concept was abandoned in the mid to late 90s.

There is a axial power/burnup dependence in a fuel assembly/rod. Since the flux decreases at the edge of the core, the top power generation and burnup decrease more or less proportionally, so the decay heat generation also decreases. It is the middle 75-80% that generates the significant decay heat - and there is not much that can be done about that - except to provide cooling water.

In the SFP, one can see thermals arising from natural convection in the storage racks. There are flow holes at the bottom of the rack, and cooler water from the edge of the pool and older/cooler assemblies displaces the warmer water in the younger assemblies, so there is some cooling by natural convection.

The SFP is cooled by an external system in a 'closed' recirculation system. The heat is simply conducted to the environment.

 

[rhody]

Thanks Astronuc,

That makes perfect sense from an expert in a clear unambigious manner.

Rhody...

 

[rhody]

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/03/16/2118120/elite-japan-nuclear-workers-race.html"

Small teams of the still-anonymous emergency workers rush in and out for 10 to 15 minutes at a time to pump sea water into the plant's overheated reactors, monitor them and clear debris from explosions. Any longer would make their exposure to radioactivity too great.

Even at normal times, workers wear coveralls, full-face masks with filters, helmets and double-layer gloves when they enter areas with a possibility of radiation exposure. Some of them carry oxygen tanks so they don't have to inhale any radioactive particles into their lungs.

and

The workers' challenges this week have included struggling for hours to open a pressure-release valve and allow water to enter the reactors. When a worker left the scene for a short period, the water flow ceased and fuel for pumps bringing up the water ran out.

A building housing a spent fuel storage pool exploded at one point, making two huge holes on the upper side of the wall on the building. A plant worker spotted a fire shortly thereafter that was later put out.

The workers also have had to walk around the area to measure radioactivity in each place they were supposed to enter, and remove contaminated debris. They also struggle with broken equipment and a lack of electricity.

"Workers persevere amid fears of 400 millisieverts," read one headline in the nationally circulated Yomiuri newspaper.

Rhody...

P.S. Just read in another article, a total of 180 workers are rotating in and out (50 or so at a time) to keep exposure to a minimum (250 millisieverts maximum lifetime exposure). At that point what do they do, bring in more people and train them who have not been exposed ?

 

[FlexGunship]

^^^^^^^^^^

[PLAIN]http://newamericangazette.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/fbd0bbaekhammentary.jpg

I know it's a little overly dramatic (I'm confident they are safe and avoiding unnecessary risks)... but those guys are heroes.

 

[Angry Citizen]

Totally agree. They better receive one hell of a company bonus at the end of this -- at least.

 

[nismaratwork]

Yeah, I'm not sure how overly dramatic that is... if it's just 180 people exposed around the clock, they've at LEAST shortened their lives. More likely they'll (or have) received quite an acute dose... so... yeah that works.

 

[Angry Citizen]

Power will soon be restored to the nuclear plants:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110316/ap_on_bi_ge/as_japan_earthquake

 

[nismaratwork]

Power will soon be restored to the nuclear plants:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110316/ap_on_bi_ge/as_japan_earthquake

I'll believe it when I see it working the appropriate systems, if they still function. TEPCO is, in my view as of this last decade... useless.

 

[FlexGunship]

I'll believe it when I see it working the appropriate systems, if they still function. TEPCO is, in my view as of this last decade... useless.

Well, I think we can agree that YOU and I have NOOOOOO idea what it means to be a TEPCO administrator/employee. I understand their history but I don't pretend to understand the context or cultural setting.

Let's keep things in perspective here, Japan got rocked with a 9.0 earthquake! If you look at the rate of occurrence, they're less than one-in-ten-thousand-years per region! Given that, things are looking pretty amazing if you ask me. This isn't the fault of the engineers that designed the place, or the operators, or the plant administrators!

Sometimes this **** happens. Let's be thankful that everyone seems to have kept a cool head and that, all things considered, the dangers of radiation contamination seems minor compared to other earthquake/tsunami-related damage.

 

[nismaratwork]

Well, I think we can agree that YOU and I have NOOOOOO idea what it means to be a TEPCO administrator/employee. I understand their history but I don't pretend to understand the context or cultural setting.

Let's keep things in perspective here, Japan got rocked with a 9.0 earthquake! If you look at the rate of occurrence, they're less than one-in-ten-thousand-years per region! Given that, things are looking pretty amazing if you ask me. This isn't the fault of the engineers that designed the place, or the operators, or the plant administrators!

Sometimes this **** happens. Let's be thankful that everyone seems to have kept a cool head and that, all things considered, the dangers of radiation contamination seems minor compared to other earthquake/tsunami-related damage.

Yeah, but I'm thinking of their last radiological release, and the PM actually losing his cool with them. Putting together the pieces of what Astronuc has said, it really sounds like TEPCO above all is on the hook here. Yes, mother nature kicked them in the balls, but this is still not acceptable.

Hell man, look at the ambient radiation in Toykyo.. almost double on average what it was before... Tokyo... not Fukishima. Let's just hope that's all gamma and not alpha emitting, or you multiply that by 20 (at LEAST) in conversion to Sieverts.

edit:
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/japan-nuclear-plant-logs-3rd-radiation-leak/206019/
http://cnic.jp/english/newsletter/nit140/nit140articles/kk.html

This is not news to TEPCO, and new info is coming out that Fukishima was asessed to be risky in this kind of event. I'm pro-nuclear, I think that's been clear, but I'm not pro-TEPCO right now.

See CNN's Atika Shubert talking about diplo-cables.

 

[Proton Soup]

I think it's interesting that http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/03/15/6277276-potassium-iodide-demand-spikes-in-us" .

Here's some good info:

"Kelp is a natural KI source. The iodide content can range from 89 µg/g to 8165 µg/g in Asian varieties, making prepared foods content difficult to estimate. Eating 3-5 grams of most dried, unrinsed seaweeds will provide the 100-150 micrograms iodide recommended daily allowance." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_iodide"

If you're getting your kelp from Asian sources, however, I'd recommend you pick a location upwind, and upcurrent from Japan. The 130 mg tablets, however, are sufficient to saturate the thyroid and thereby help protect, but not eliminate, radiactive iodine uptake.

The entire situation is sad indeed.

i don't think the japanese have anything to worry about so far as iodine is concerned. they already consume a few orders of magnitude more iodine than we do.

http://www.jpands.org/vol11no4/millerd.pdf

they eat more in a day than what is included in one of those 130mg pills. if people here feel better stocking up on iodine pills, i wouldn't think it's any concern.

 

[Angry Citizen]

Yeah, but I'm thinking of their last radiological release, and the PM actually losing his cool with them. Putting together the pieces of what Astronuc has said, it really sounds like TEPCO above all is on the hook here. Yes, mother nature kicked them in the balls, but this is still not acceptable.

Hell man, look at the ambient radiation in Toykyo.. almost double on average what it was before... Tokyo... not Fukishima. Let's just hope that's all gamma and not alpha emitting, or you multiply that by 20 (at LEAST) in conversion to Sieverts.

Where did you get that information? The data I have suggests that levels over Tokyo have stabilized to just above background.

 

[nismaratwork]

Where did you get that information? The data I have suggests that levels over Tokyo have stabilized to just above background.

From Greg's friend.

http://park18.wakwak.com/~weather/geiger_index.html

Note the average vs. December of last year. I should add, during the major leak, it reached up to 90 CPM... that's absurd.

edit: Note, that's in TOKYO... a couple hundred miles from Fukishima.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

CNN reports that a man named Jasco [spelling?] from the Atomic Energy Commission, just testified before Congress and stated that the spent fuel rods are dry [fully exposed], there has been a hydrogen explosion, and secondary containment has been destroyed.

I think I got that right...

 

[nismaratwork]

@Astronuc: Wise bearded sage of the atom, is this "Alvarez" fellow talking on CNN a reliable guy? He looks like he's about to cry, and is talking about people having to essentially end their lives by working in this plant. I made a bit of a hobby studying radiation poisoning... that strikes me as a horrendous thing to burden a man with. On the other hand, if things go badly, it's their families and friends who will be exposed.

What a situation...

 

[nismaratwork]

CNN reports that a man named Jasco [spelling?] from the Atomic Energy Commission, just testified before Congress and stated that the spent fuel rods are dry, there has been a hydrogen explosion, and secondary containment has been destroyed.

Can I curse just once here? PLEASE... I'll do it in language that (probably) nobody even knows here...

 

[Angry Citizen]

From Greg's friend.

http://park18.wakwak.com/~weather/geiger_index.html

Note the average vs. December of last year. I should add, during the major leak, it reached up to 90 CPM... that's absurd.

edit: Note, that's in TOKYO... a couple hundred miles from Fukishima.

Mean in December: 14.00

Mean now: 17.55

That's 25% higher, not 100%. For all intents and purposes, that IS just above background.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

He looks like he's about to cry, and is talking about people having to essentially end their lives by working in this plant. I made a bit of a hobby studying radiation poisoning... that strikes me as a horrendous thing to burden a man with. On the other hand, if things go badly, it's their families and friends who will be exposed.

Reminds me of U-571

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/e...water-in-reactor-runs-out-20110317-1bxm8.html

 

[Astronuc]

CNN reports that a man named Jasco [spelling?] from the Atomic Energy Commission, just testified before Congress and stated that the spent fuel rods are dry [fully exposed], there has been a hydrogen explosion, and secondary containment has been destroyed.

I think I got that right...

US Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC), Gregory Jaczko, made an announcement that "there is no water in one of the reactor's pools, leading to "extremely high" radiation levels," according to the link provided by Greg.

The hydrogen could have come from the core or the SFPs. Although published reports have indicated the Zr+H20(steam) reaction which produces hydrogen occurred in the cores, it could have occurred on spent fuel rods if they were exposed to air and allowed to heat up.

I can't verify it personally, but I would expect Jaczko has. Then again, I have no way of confirming that.

Getting electrical power back to Units 1-4 is of paramount importance.

BTW - I'm a purist when it comes to nuclear energy and nuclear fuel. The cardinal rule is - "thou shall not release fission products into the environment." All other rules support that.

 

[Lancelot59]

Totally agree. They better receive one hell of a company bonus at the end of this -- at least.

If they live long enough to collect it. A good number if them I expect will develop cancer.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

CNN reports that a man named Jasco [spelling?] from the Atomic Energy Commission, just testified before Congress and stated that the spent fuel rods are dry [fully exposed], there has been a hydrogen explosion, and secondary containment has been destroyed.

Reminds me of U-571

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/e...water-in-reactor-runs-out-20110317-1bxm8.html

US Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC), Gregory Jaczko, made an announcement that "there is no water in one of the reactor's pools, leading to "extremely high" radiation levels," according to the link provided by Greg.

No no no this is just crazy

If the heat is rising… and the Zirconium fuel cladding oxidize to Zirconium dioxide and releases hydrogen... and...

 

[nismaratwork]

If they live long enough to collect it. A good number if them I expect will develop cancer.

I doubt they will last so long... it's not as though their dose could be fractionated, and the Q factor for neutrons, and alpha emitters is miserable. I'd be surprised if some were not already experiencing frank symptoms... ideally they might avoid this, but given the amount of time spent and fighting fires... I doubt cancer is their concern.

Six days they've been in there...


I honestly can't imagine a worse outcome for this kind of reactor except a massive criticality incident... and I'm not sure that's worse.

@Greg: Indeed... what can they do? They can stay and try to save the communities and people they know and love... or run. I don't think that's an easy choice... I'd be terrified, but if it meant protecting my friends and family... it's just one life, you know?

@Angry Citizen: It is now, you're right, at least on average. That updates every 10 minutes however, and it wasn't that low when I had last checked. I'd add... without knowing if that's Krypton, Ne, Xe... or Cesium... you can't really know the impact on humans.

 

[nismaratwork]

This would all be easier to take without what's happening in Bahrain, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Haiti still in shambles, The world and USA economy struggling back, two wars, division in Pakistan... and so on.

I'm not usually one to be emotional, and especiallly emotionally overwhelmed, but I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed. I think I'm too close to Japan to maintain a proper intellectual distance... Iwata Prefecture... I've walked around huge parts of it, and now I've seen it literally washed away and burned.

I feel... numb... how must these poor people trying to stay alive and find family and friend in Japan feel?

 

[Angry Citizen]

@Angry Citizen: It is now, you're right, at least on average. That updates every 10 minutes however, and it wasn't that low when I had last checked. I'd add... without knowing if that's Krypton, Ne, Xe... or Cesium... you can't really know the impact on humans.

The time stamps on the graph are every three hours though. You can see the history of the radiation measurement over fifteen hours on the graph. I think your source was simply mistaken; or perhaps Greg's friend is mistaken? God I hope it's the former.

As bad as the radiation seems to be at Fukushima, it does seem to be largely contained there. It may be premature, but I think the only people who will suffer long term damage as a result of this incident will be the poor worker guys. Seriously, what everyone's saying is true. These guys are freakin' heroes. If they don't get free, state of the art treatment for any cancers they receive, then the world is truly unjust.

 

[nismaratwork]

The time stamps on the graph are every three hours though. You can see the history of the radiation measurement over fifteen hours on the graph. I think your source was simply mistaken; or perhaps Greg's friend is mistaken? God I hope it's the former.

As bad as the radiation seems to be at Fukushima, it does seem to be largely contained there. It may be premature, but I think the only people who will suffer long term damage as a result of this incident will be the poor worker guys. Seriously, what everyone's saying is true. These guys are freakin' heroes. If they don't get free, state of the art treatment for any cancers they receive, then the world is truly unjust.

I don't think we can assume containment.. Jazco wazs pretty clear: secondary containment gone.

Personally, I'm guessing the snow has something to do with the lower readings, especially given that the reserve pool is by all accounts, dry now.

The radiation on-site HAS to be lethal AFAIK, but I don't know what kind of shielding they have on their person, or if they have a 'safe' region to allow for the dose to be fractionated. By ignorant guess is that they're killing themselves, very bravely, and are unlikely to survive to die of cancer.

 

[Lacy33]

Reminds me of U-571

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/e...water-in-reactor-runs-out-20110317-1bxm8.html

All this and more is starting to bring us together as one heart.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

It seems pretty clear to me that they have either completely lost control of the situation, or all but so.

No doubt this is the end of the road in the US, and in many other countries I would bet, for nuclear power.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

Large satellite image from digitalglobe.com on smoke coming out of unit 3:

http://www.digitalglobe.com/downloads/featured_images/japan_earthquaketsu_fukushima_daiichi2_march16_2011_dg.jpg

... looks like a warzone ... unit 4 & 3 is completely demolished ...

 

[Angry Citizen]

Personally, I'm guessing the snow has something to do with the lower readings, especially given that the reserve pool is by all accounts, dry now.

Japan says that just ain't so:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110316/ap_on_bi_ge/as_japan_earthquake

 

[DevilsAvocado]

No doubt this is the end of the road in the US, and in many other countries I would bet, for nuclear power.

You are a very brave man. This kind of opinion is not "allowed" in this thread by some, they will call you "hysterical" and some will even scream "You're going to die man!" accusing you for threatening them.

Stick around for a moment; the "screaming monkeys" are coming...


(Personally I’m pretty neutral and pragmatic, but there might be something in your claim...)

 

[robillarde]

Hi - does anyone know an/the math probability/ies [] (considering last ten days [] of quakes and any data available that could be relevant> (been looking at Iris) of worst case scenario- like meltdown meets quake, how far could she blow? What damage would be most likely to occur (although naturally way too unlikely due to depth) if they 'met' - this is what people are worried about as well as radiation-invest in iodine ((sorry)?!

 

[Proton Soup]

is there any possibility that background radiation increases in tokyo are related to the recent eruptions at the Shinmoedake volcano?

 

[Angry Citizen]

Interesting point. I think that's a possibility worth checking out, but I consider Fukushima the far more likely source.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

is there any possibility that background radiation increases in tokyo are related to the recent eruptions at the Shinmoedake volcano?

Very good point PS! I think it would be fairly easy to determine by checking the wind directions.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

... like meltdown meets quake, how far could she blow?

I’m not sure I understand... the main quake M8.9 (9.0) has already occurred (several km away)? A meltdown would go straight down (my guess: a couple of meters at worst).

When it comes to meltdowns, it’s what goes up in the air that matters, not what goes down.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

NHK World: They will try to use water cannon (and firefighters?) to insert water in the spent fuel ponds...

 

[Al68]

It seems pretty clear to me that they have either completely lost control of the situation, or all but so.

No doubt this is the end of the road in the US, and in many other countries I would bet, for nuclear power.

Maybe, but only because of irrational hysteria. This situation isn't good, but even assuming (reasonably) worst case scenario here, putting things in any kind of perspective at all shows nuclear power to be far safer than any alternative.

And it's not like the worst case scenario for these plants even remotely compares to the overall earthquake/tsunami consequences to Japan.

 

[nismaratwork]

It seems pretty clear to me that they have either completely lost control of the situation, or all but so.

No doubt this is the end of the road in the US, and in many other countries I would bet, for nuclear power.

I hope you're wrong, but given the power of the coal/LNG lobbies, I can't say you're wrong.

For me, this is a case to seriously retrofit and rebuild; this is our infrastructure stimulus: build and design new plants.

It's better than coal...

@DA: Wait... you mean 'The China Syndrome' WASN'T a documentary?!

 

[nismaratwork]

NHK World: They will try to use water cannon (and firefighters?) to insert water in the spent fuel ponds...

Wow... that's almost exactly like pissing on a bonfire.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

Ivan, what did I tell you? Now you’re "hysterical"...

 

[nismaratwork]

Ivan, what did I tell you? Now you’re "hysterical"...

I'm giving Ivan the benefit of the doubt... I suspect he means that due to hysteria and lobbies it's going down, not by need alone.