A ball tied up at an angular plane: Forces and torque

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a spherical ball in static equilibrium on an inclined plane, held in place by a string. The discussion focuses on the forces acting on the ball, including tension, normal force, and friction, as well as the application of torque and force equations.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to analyze the forces acting on the ball and has derived equations based on the static equilibrium condition. They express uncertainty about the third equation related to torque and question whether their approach is purely mathematical or if there was an error in decomposing the forces.

Discussion Status

Some participants confirm that the force decomposition is correct but suggest further evaluation of the torque equation. There is an ongoing exploration of the implications of the derived equations, with one participant indicating that the results obtained may not be reasonable.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes concerns about the signs of the calculated forces and the appropriateness of the values obtained, indicating potential misunderstandings in the application of the equations.

Zhartek
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Homework Statement


A spherical ball with radius R and mass M is kept in place at a plane with angle θ. The ball is kept in place with a string, as shown in this picture:
cSuUW.jpg


Given R = 20cm, M = 3.0kg, and θ = 30°, find:
1) the tension of the string.
2) the normal force on the ball from the plane.
3) the size of the friction force on the ball.

Homework Equations



I assume the ball to be in static equlibrium, so the sum of forces acting on the ball must be zero, as must the sum of torques:
\sum \vec{F} = 0
\sum \vec{\tau} = 0

The Attempt at a Solution


Based on the information given, I've found 4 forces acting on the ball: The gravity G, the normal force N, the frictional force F, and the force from the string T.

pub?id=1R6UXxLF52EBEGHmrenkMVdTT2k2zX-nJiLHtGRWAkg8&w=430&h=269.png


Based on this, I've come up with 3 equations:
\vec{T} + \vec{F_x} = \vec{N_x} \rightarrow T\hat{x} + Fcos(\theta)\hat{x} = N cos(90-\theta)\hat{x}
\vec{N_y} + \vec{F_y} = M\vec{g} \rightarrow Nsin(90-\theta)\hat{y} + Fsin(\theta)\hat{y} = Mg\hat{y}
\vec{T} \times \vec{R} + \vec{F} \times \vec{R} + \vec{N} \times \vec{R} = 0

My real problem is, I can't figure anything out from the third equation. Is my problem purely mathematical? Or have I made a mistake during the decomposing of the forces?

Thanks in advance for any advice! Also sorry for any (big) spelling mistakes.
 
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You have decomposed the forces correctly, but you can do more with the third equation. Have a look at each of the terms, and look at the (very neat) diagram you have drawn. Can you immediately evaluate one of the terms?
 
BruceW said:
You have decomposed the forces correctly, but you can do more with the third equation. Have a look at each of the terms, and look at the (very neat) diagram you have drawn. Can you immediately evaluate one of the terms?

Right, so by the definition of cross product, I get the third equation to be
RT + RF = 0
Solving this system of equations yields
T = -109.7
F = 109.7
N = -29.4
Shouldn't N be positive? And the size of T and F seems a little big to me..
 
Zhartek said:
Right, so by the definition of cross product, I get the third equation to be
RT + RF = 0
This isn't quite right, which is why the rest of the calculation will have gone awry. You had the equation:
\vec{T} \times \vec{R} + \vec{F} \times \vec{R} + \vec{N} \times \vec{R} = 0
And each of the R vectors correspond to the position vectors where each of the forces are applied. In other words, the R vectors are generally different for each. And using the definition of the cross product, we don't get RT + RF = 0 (but you are close!)
 

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