A de Sitter like Universe with matter

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the modeling of the Universe, particularly focusing on a de Sitter-like Universe with matter. Participants explore the implications of different equations of state, the role of the cosmological constant, and the nature of pressure in the context of cosmic expansion. The scope includes theoretical considerations and speculative ideas regarding the behavior of matter and energy in the Universe.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the de Sitter model as having zero matter density and pressure, leading to an accelerating empty universe with a non-zero cosmological constant.
  • Another participant proposes an alternative model where the equation of state is given by p = -rho c^2, suggesting this could describe a matter-filled accelerating Universe without an explicit cosmological constant.
  • Some participants discuss the equivalence between an empty universe with a cosmological constant and a universe filled with matter exhibiting negative pressure, indicating they may represent the same physical scenario.
  • Speculation arises about the role of zero-point energy and gluon fields in creating negative pressure within baryons, raising questions about the implications for structure formation in the Universe.
  • Concerns are expressed about the feasibility of matter collapsing to form structures if negative pressure is a significant factor.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of negative pressure and its role in the Universe. There is no consensus on whether the proposed models accurately describe the present Universe or the consequences of negative pressure on structure formation.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of the models and the assumptions involved, particularly regarding the nature of pressure in cosmological contexts and the relationship between matter and the cosmological constant.

johne1618
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As I understand it the de Sitter model is a model of the Universe with:

rho = matter density = rho = 0

p = pressure = 0

k = spatial curvature = 0

cosmological constant = Lambda = non zero

Putting these values in the Friedmann equations one finds the solution for the scale factor a(t) is:

a(t) = exp( sqrt(Lambda c^2/3) * t)

This describes an accelerating empty universe with a non-zero cosmological constant.

Although this model has the right deceleration parameter q = -1 it is contrary to observations as we know there is matter in the Universe.

Now consider the following model:

p = - rho c^2

k = 0

Plugging these values into the Friedmann equations we find we are left with the following equation for the scale factor a:

a'^2 = a a''

This also has the solution:

a(t) = exp(H * t)

where

H^2 = 8 Pi G rho' / 3


where rho' = rho + Lambda c^2

Now this model describes a matter-filled accelerating Universe with no explicit cosmological constant provided that the equation of state of the matter is:

p = -rho c^2

Is this right?

Does this latter model describe the present Universe provided that p = -rho c^2 holds for present day matter?

In this model the negative pressure is associated with the particles of matter themselves rather than having a cosmological constant that is associated with the background space.

Perhaps the negative pressure is a zero-point energy phenomenon holding the individual particles of matter together (in the same manner as the Casimir effect pushes conducting plates together).
 
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The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_field_equations" .
 
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johne1618 said:
As I understand it the de Sitter model is a model of the Universe with:

rho = matter density = rho = 0

p = pressure = 0

k = spatial curvature = 0

cosmological constant = Lambda = non zero

Putting these values in the Friedmann equations one finds the solution for the scale factor a(t) is:

a(t) = exp( sqrt(Lambda c^2/3) * t)

This describes an accelerating empty universe with a non-zero cosmological constant.

Although this model has the right deceleration parameter q = -1 it is contrary to observations as we know there is matter in the Universe.

Now consider the following model:

p = - rho c^2

k = 0

Plugging these values into the Friedmann equations we find we are left with the following equation for the scale factor a:

a'^2 = a a''

This also has the solution:

a(t) = exp(H * t)

where

H^2 = 8 Pi G rho' / 3


where rho' = rho + Lambda c^2

Now this model describes a matter-filled accelerating Universe with no explicit cosmological constant provided that the equation of state of the matter is:

p = -rho c^2

Is this right?

Does this latter model describe the present Universe provided that p = -rho c^2 holds for present day matter?

In this model the negative pressure is associated with the particles of matter themselves rather than having a cosmological constant that is associated with the background space.

Perhaps the negative pressure is a zero-point energy phenomenon holding the individual particles of matter together (in the same manner as the Casimir effect pushes conducting plates together).
There's no difference between an empty universe with a cosmological constant and a universe that is filled only with matter that has negative pressure equal to its energy density. They are just two different ways of describing the same thing.

Just bear in mind that our own universe has quite a bit of normal matter that has no pressure on cosmological scales.
 
Chalnoth said:
There's no difference between an empty universe with a cosmological constant and a universe that is filled only with matter that has negative pressure equal to its energy density. They are just two different ways of describing the same thing.

Just bear in mind that our own universe has quite a bit of normal matter that has no pressure on cosmological scales.

Maybe each baryon of normal and dark matter is held together by the excess pressure of zero-point gluon fields outside the particle. Thus there would be a region of negative pressure hiding inside every baryon in the Universe.
 
Last edited:
johne1618 said:
Maybe each baryon of normal and dark matter is held together by the excess pressure of zero-point gluon fields outside the particle. Thus there would be a region of negative pressure hiding inside every baryon in the Universe.
But then matter wouldn't collapse and form structures.
 
Good point - I'll have to think about that one!
 

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