A simple case of translation invariance of Riemann integrals

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around demonstrating the translation invariance of Riemann integrals, specifically showing that the integral of a constant function over a region A in R^n is equal to the integral over its translated region T(A). The problem is set within the context of Riemann integrals and involves understanding the implications of translation on volume and integration.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss using the definition of Riemann integrals and the challenges of working with n-dimensional cubes. Some suggest considering Stokes' theorem as a potential simplification, while others emphasize the need to describe the volume of A and T(A) to prove the invariance. Questions arise about how to mathematically generalize from cubes to arbitrary regions and the implications of approximating A with cubes.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants offering various approaches and hints. There is recognition of the need to establish a formalism for describing the volumes involved and the properties of the translation function. While some participants express uncertainty about the use of Stokes' theorem, others are exploring the implications of approximating regions with cubes and the continuity of the translation function.

Contextual Notes

Participants note constraints such as the requirement to use only the definition of Riemann integrals and the arbitrary nature of the region A. There is also mention of the need to clarify how translation affects volume and the distinction between translation and other types of mappings, such as shear mappings.

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Homework Statement


Show that

\int_{A} 1 = \int_{T(A)} 1

given A is an arbitrary region in R^n (not necessarily a rectangle) and T is a translation in R^n.

Homework Equations



Normally we find Riemann integrals by creating a rectangle R that includes A and set the function to be zero when x is in R\A and x is in A. I can only use the definition.

The Attempt at a Solution



I tried to create a rectangle that includes both A and T(A). However that was not useful. I'm really at a lost here.
 
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You can either use the definition of Riemann integrals, which might be a bit messy and long, or you could use Stoke's theorem which reduces the task to one line. Your rectangles are actually ##n-##dimensional cubes, which makes the entire thing troublesome. So what else can you use? Unfortunately your section 2 of the template is a bit too thin.

If you can use nothing than the definition, which seems to be the case, then I'll have to ask you: What is ##\int_A \mathbf{1}## in exact terms?
 
fresh_42 said:
You can either use the definition of Riemann integrals, which might be a bit messy and long, or you could use Stoke's theorem which reduces the task to one line. Your rectangles are actually ##n-##dimensional cubes, which makes the entire thing troublesome. So what else can you use? Unfortunately your section 2 of the template is a bit too thin.

If you can use nothing than the definition, which seems to be the case, then I'll have to ask you: What is ##\int_A \mathbf{1}## in exact terms?

Indeed I can only use the definition. I would first create a rectangle R such that A is included in R and \tilde{f} such that \tilde{f}(x) = 1 if x is in A and \tilde{f}(x) = 0 if x is in R\A

And by definition, I have: \int_{A} 1 = \int_{R} \tilde{f} = sup \{L(\tilde{f},P) \}.

How should I proceed? Can I get a hint?
 
I don't understand what you wrote. Your rectangles are cubes, n-dimensional cubes. If you know already, that it is sufficient to integrate over the boundary instead - the rectangles ##R## - of the whole space ##A## inside, which is Stoke's theorem, then you're done, because translation doesn't change the boundary. Otherwise you have to deal with a volume ##A \subseteq \mathbb{R}^n## and you need to describe this volume somehow and prove that the translation doesn't change the volume. It is obviously true, so the main task is to find out how to write it. As we start with ##\int_A 1## we need to get hold on ##A## somehow.

E.g. a shear mapping does change volume as well as the boundaries, so your proof needs to make use of the difference between a translation and a shear mapping. Both are linear. Do you have volume elements ##\wedge_i dx^i\,##? How to describe ##A## and then ##T(A)## is the key.
 
fresh_42 said:
I don't understand what you wrote. Your rectangles are cubes, n-dimensional cubes. If you know already, that it is sufficient to integrate over the boundary instead - the rectangles ##R## - of the whole space ##A## inside, which is Stoke's theorem, then you're done, because translation doesn't change the boundary. Otherwise you have to deal with a volume ##A \subseteq \mathbb{R}^n## and you need to describe this volume somehow and prove that the translation doesn't change the volume. It is obviously true, so the main task is to find out how to write it. As we start with ##\int_A 1## we need to get hold on ##A## somehow.

E.g. a shear mapping does change volume as well as the boundaries, so your proof needs to make use of the difference between a translation and a shear mapping. Both are linear. Do you have volume elements ##\wedge_i dx^i\,##? How to describe ##A## and then ##T(A)## is the key.
I don't know the Stokes' theorem. Is it possible to prove it without the Stokes' theorem? Can I do it straight from the definition?

Does the volume element matter? It can be any dx^i. A can be any arbitrary bounded region, not necessarily a cube.
 
Yes, but for Riemann integrals, you enclose it by cubes, from the outside and / or from the inside and build the infimum / supremum of those cubes. So the kernel statement is, that cube and T(cube) have the same volume. The arbitrary case are simply more cubes of all sizes to gradually fill ##A##. So if you can prove if for any cube, it holds for ##A## as well.

So the first line of a proof could be. W.l.o.g. let ##A## be a cube. Then we need a formalism to describe ##T(cube)##. E.g. if ##Vol(A)= \wedge_i dx^i## then what is ##Vol(T(A))##?
 
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fresh_42 said:
Yes, but for Riemann integrals, you enclose it by cubes, from the outside and / or from the inside and build the infimum / supremum of those cubes. So the kernel statement is, that cube and T(cube) have the same volume. The arbitrary case are simply more cubes of all sizes to gradually fill ##A##. So if you can prove if for any cube, it holds for ##A## as well.

So the first line of a proof could be. W.l.o.g. let ##A## be a cube. Then we need a formalism to describe ##T(cube)##. E.g. if ##Vol(A)= \wedge_i dx^i## then what is ##Vol(T(A))##?

That's a good hint. I know how to prove it when A is a cube, and I can see intuitively why that would imply the same when A is an arbitrary area. However, how do I show that mathematically? Suppose that I was able to show the statement for any cube R. How do I generalize to any arbitrary region A?
 
For Riemann integrals we approximate the volume ##A## by cubes but always finitely many, and if ##T(\sum_n \operatorname{Vol}(A_n))=\sum_n \operatorname{Vol}(T(A_n))##, then the question is, whether this holds for the limits as well:
$$
\int_A 1 = \lim_{n \to \infty} \sum_n \operatorname{Vol}(A_n) = \lim_{n \to \infty} \sum_n \operatorname{Vol}(T(A_n)) = \lim_{n \to \infty} T( \sum_n \operatorname{Vol}(A_n) ) = \int_{T(A)} 1
$$
##T## has all the nice properties needed: continuous, linear, smooth, and bounded. I'm not quite sure if we also have to swap the limit and ##T## but this shouldn't be a problem, too.
 
fresh_42 said:
For Riemann integrals we approximate the volume ##A## by cubes but always finitely many, and if ##T(\sum_n \operatorname{Vol}(A_n))=\sum_n \operatorname{Vol}(T(A_n))##, then the question is, whether this holds for the limits as well:
$$
\int_A 1 = \lim_{n \to \infty} \sum_n \operatorname{Vol}(A_n) = \lim_{n \to \infty} \sum_n \operatorname{Vol}(T(A_n)) = \lim_{n \to \infty} T( \sum_n \operatorname{Vol}(A_n) ) = \int_{T(A)} 1
$$
##T## has all the nice properties needed: continuous, linear, smooth, and bounded. I'm not quite sure if we also have to swap the limit and ##T## but this shouldn't be a problem, too.
What are the A_n? Are they cubes used to approximate A? How do you know that we can actually approximate A arbitrarily close?
 
  • #10
ttsp said:
What are the A_n? Are they cubes used to approximate A?
Yes.
How do you know that we can actually approximate A arbitrarily close?
The same as on the real line with intervals or a bit more visual in the plane with rectangles. At least for finite volumes. Don't ask me for the formal procedure, though. Maybe so: Open cubes are an open covering and such we can select a finite subcover for compact sets. Now refine the covering by taking smaller cubes and so on. We get more and more, but always finitely many and the procedure should result in an approximation of ##\operatorname{Vol}(A)##.
 

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