I Acceleration towards c without a reference frame and changes

Click For Summary
The discussion revolves around the concept of acceleration in a vacuum and the implications of reference frames in relativistic physics. It questions whether a spaceship can be considered to be moving without an external reference frame and explores the energy required for two spaceships to accelerate to the same speed relative to each other. Clarifications highlight that the energy needed for acceleration remains consistent regardless of the spaceship's initial speed, as long as the acceleration is applied over the same duration. The conversation also touches on the contentious topic of relativistic mass, emphasizing that energy expenditure increases significantly as speeds approach the speed of light. Ultimately, the thread underscores the philosophical nature of defining motion and reference frames in an empty universe.
  • #31
Buckethead said:
In a purely empty universe there is no previous speed

Yes, there is, because you have a spacetime geometry and "speed" can be defined relative to a particular inertial frame (the one in which the rocket started out at rest) in that spacetime geometry. See my previous post.
 
  • Like
Likes infector
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #32
Buckethead said:
With regard to your first sentence, think of it as a polygraph.

You are getting very close to a warning for personal theory. You are not describing how motion in flat Minkowski spacetime works.
 
  • #33
OK - I concede. I am in no position to argue if Minkowski spacetime remains intact or not in a universe that is void of everything except for one spaceship. It is very difficult for me to step away from the notion of Mach's principle.
 
  • #34
Thank you all for your input, very interesting discussion emerged here.
To all my (relatively little) knowledge on the topic I agree with @PeterDonis that:
PeterDonis said:
"speed" can be defined relative to a particular inertial frame (the one in which the rocket started out at rest) in that spacetime geometry.
 
  • #35
Buckethead said:
I am in no position to argue if Minkowski spacetime remains intact or not in a universe that is void of everything except for one spaceship.

The question is not so much whether Minkowski spacetime "remains intact" -- Minkowski spacetime is a highly idealized model, everyone recognizes that. The question is, do we have any other model that could possibly describe "a universe that is void of everything except for one spaceship". The answer to that question is no, we don't. And in the absence of any other model, Minkowski spacetime is the best we can do, and anything else is just speculation and is off topic here.
 
  • #36
A universe devoid of everything but one spaceship would = that spaceship. Hard to make any sort of physical predictions about such a hypothetical, small and different "universe." In this universe, possibly expanded to some future point where nothing is observable (as most of it already isn't) you'd still have the CMB to measure your relative speed and direction against.
 
  • #37
Chris Miller said:
A universe devoid of everything but one spaceship would = that spaceship

Not if you are using SR/GR as your theory. In SR/GR, if we assume the mass of the spaceship is negligible, the universe would be Minkowski spacetime. If we assume the mass of the spaceship is non-negligible, the universe would be some curved spacetime (if we idealize the spaceship as spherically symmetric, it would be a vacuum region described by the Schwarzschild geometry surrounding a non-vacuum region occupied by the spaceship).
 
  • Like
Likes Dale

Similar threads

  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 87 ·
3
Replies
87
Views
5K
  • · Replies 36 ·
2
Replies
36
Views
5K
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 65 ·
3
Replies
65
Views
11K
  • · Replies 75 ·
3
Replies
75
Views
6K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 35 ·
2
Replies
35
Views
5K
Replies
144
Views
9K
  • · Replies 51 ·
2
Replies
51
Views
4K